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mario_spaghettio
09-29-2010, 09:44 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/europe_terror_plot

LONDON – European security officials said Wednesday a terror plot to wage Mumbai-style shooting sprees in Britain, France and Germany is still active and that sites in Pakistan — where the threat was intercepted two weeks ago — are being scoured for al-Qaida operatives.
The plot was still in its early stages and not considered serious enough to raise the current terror threat level, officials said. Still, the Eiffel Tower in Paris was briefly evacuated Tuesday, the second time in the past week because of an unspecified threat, and police were on alert in Britain and France.
"This plot was in its embryonic stages," a British government official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of his work told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "This one has preoccupied us more than others in the past few weeks — and it is still active — but it has not raised enough alarms to change our security threat level."
The announcement of the plot came ahead of Thursday's anniversary of the Prophet Muhammad cartoons being published in a Danish newspaper.
It also came as Spanish authorities announced they had arrested a U.S. citizen of Algerian origin on suspicion of financing al-Qaida's North African affiliate.
Mohamed Omar Debhi, 43, was arrested Tuesday, although Spain's Interior Ministry said that was not connected to the terror threat. He is suspected of laundering money and sending some of it to an associate in Algeria, Toufik Mizi, to be passed on to cells of al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb.
Europe has been a target of numerous Islamic terror plots — the deadliest being the Madrid train bombings in 2004 when 10 shrapnel-filled bombs exploded during rush hour, killing 191 people and wounding about 1,800.
A year later, suicide bombers killed 52 rush-hour commuters in London aboard three subway cars and one bus.
In 2006, U.S. and British intelligence officials thwarted one of the largest plots yet and one that changed air travel forever — a plan to explode nearly a dozen trans-Atlantic airliners.
Officials gave no other details of the recent terror plot except to say that it originated in Pakistan with a group "threatening to wage a Mumbai-style attack" on cities in Britain, France and Germany. It was not clear how the attacks would be carried out or when.
A three-day siege in 2008 by gunmen in the Indian city of Mumbai left 166 people dead and raised fears of similar low-budget types of attacks around the world — a departure from the Sept. 11 terror attacks in the United States that brought down the Twin Towers in 2001.
The recent terror threat has prompted a surge of attacks by unmanned U.S. drones in Pakistan, a Western counterterrorism official said.
The official said the targeted strikes were aimed at al-Qaida and other militant groups arrayed in Pakistan's tribal region near the Afghanistan border. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the details of the terror plot remain sensitive.
Another British government official, however, said that while the drone strikes are thought to have disrupted the planning of the attacks the operation was still considered active.
The Obama administration has intensified the use of drone-fired missiles in Pakistan's border area, but this month there have been at least 21 attacks — more than double the highest number fired in any other single month.
A Pakistani government official, who also spoke on condition of anonymity Wednesday, said Pakistani officials had stepped up the search for suspected militants in the past two weeks.
"We are actively working with the Americans and British to stamp out these militants," he told the AP.
A suspected American missile strike killed four militants in northwest Pakistan on Tuesday, intelligence officials said. There was no word on the identities of those killed in the attack in the South Waziristan region, just across the border from Afghanistan. The Pakistani army last year launched a major anti-militant offensive in the region, though insurgents remain.
The counterterrorism official, who is familiar with the drone strikes and the details of the Europe terror plots, said Tuesday that the missile strikes in Pakistan are "a product of precise intelligence and precise weapons. We've been hitting targets that pose a threat to our troops in Afghanistan and terrorists plotting attacks in South Asia and beyond."
The official acknowledged that "our operational tempo has been up for a while now," and added that "given the stakes involved, we hope to keep the pressure on as long as we can."

mario_spaghettio
09-29-2010, 02:24 PM
The threat is real. They're coming for you too Europe. These animals have declared war on the Western world. Stand up to them or be destroyed by them. Have you learned nothing from WWII?

Little_Miss_1565
09-29-2010, 02:32 PM
Umm, the threat has been real for several years now unless you've forgotten about the train bombings in Spain and the 7/7 transit bombings in London. And again, the terrorists were muslim but Islam is not a terrorist religion any more than you could say, oh, that all atheists are racist, islamophobic internet trolls. Just as an example.

jacknife737
09-29-2010, 02:39 PM
^ Not to mention that terrorism is nothing new in Europe: it's been dealing with the IRA, Red Army Faction, ETA, ect: there's plenty terrorism to go round in non-Islamic communities.

Little_Miss_1565
09-29-2010, 02:40 PM
These are true facts, Jacknife.

Harleyquiiinn
09-29-2010, 03:04 PM
Jacknife, how dare you compare ? These are nice christian terrorists ! Not evil muslim terrorists ! Completely different !

The Talking Pie
09-29-2010, 03:08 PM
Yeah, religious terrorism has been a problem here in Europe for much longer than you seem to realise. We had it first, you copycat.

LM1565; how open to interpretation are the rules regarding closing threads? At this point it's a given that any thread started by this idiot is intended purely to attempt to incite racial/religious hatred. Does the conversation have to actually reach that point first, or can it be nipped in the bud as soon as the words 'Muslim', 'Islam' or 'terrorist' are used in the opening post?

mario_spaghettio
09-29-2010, 03:10 PM
Shut down any opposing viewpoint asap. Only like minded opinions will be tolerated. This is a political topic and this is a Politics Forum.

The Talking Pie
09-29-2010, 03:18 PM
I'm fairly certain modern politics employs quite enough double-standards that "have any view you want, except ones we disagree with" is the norm. Just look at how we treat Nazis here in Britain (Google 'BNP' and see how we treat a legitimate political party who have been fairly elected to hold seats in the European parliament).

Bottom line is, racism isn't cool and people won't tolerate it. Which is ironic, really.

Little_Miss_1565
09-29-2010, 03:27 PM
We are intolerant to intolerance!

Mario, if by "shut down any opposing viewpoint" you mean "use logic to disprove each point you make and not allow for reckless, evidenceless accusations in the guise of free speech," then I suppose you're right.

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
09-29-2010, 03:38 PM
i just googled bnp and i disagree with EVERYTHING, except its policy towards Islam/Muslims.


Why? Because I can put up with judgmental and hypocritical christians and not with Muslim terrorists that want to murder every "infidel" they find. I would want to live in a country where I can feel safe.

Little_Miss_1565
09-29-2010, 03:47 PM
I agree to an extent, and please allow me to touch on what you've said AllIn All but then veer off onto another point...I don't want to live in a country like Iran. I love being able to be silly, and not have to worry about being arrested and stoned for adultery for looking at a man who isn't my husband or something. But my not wanting to live in Iran because of its extreme interpretation of Shariah law does not mean I hate Islam, and conflating the extremists with the religion as a whole is a gross oversimplification of the matter.

But until people on both sides of the fence can chill and not paint all muslims as terrorists or all of the West as godless infidels who must be destroyed, I don't think we're going to make much progress. However, as in all things, progress is made step by step, individual by individual.

wheelchairman
09-29-2010, 03:48 PM
You know, hed get bored if you didn't feed the troll all the time.

And no, you don't have a duty to 'educate' the 'ignorant' masses who might believe him. His target audience is you, those who disagree with him. No one else is going to pay it any mind.

But hey, if you're enjoying yourselves, why not?

Llamas
09-29-2010, 03:52 PM
You know, hed get bored if you didn't feed the troll all the time.

And no, you don't have a duty to 'educate' the 'ignorant' masses who might believe him. His target audience is you, those who disagree with him. No one else is going to pay it any mind.

But hey, if you're enjoying yourselves, why not?

I like this.

The Talking Pie
09-29-2010, 03:54 PM
I respectfully disagree. It's not a duty. It's a severe want to not have any more fucktards in the world. I don't care who the trolls' main targets are; the fact is that idiots on the sideline will pay attention if trolls go unchecked. As I've said before, whoever first thought that sticking your head in the sand and ignoring trolls was the best course of action needs shooting. If trolls can't just be banned/shot outright (which is my preferred method of dealing with them), one can at least counter them to stop others from adopting their stupid/faux views.

Little_Miss_1565
09-29-2010, 03:58 PM
Can we please take discussion of moderation points out of the on-topic section of the forum?

wheelchairman
09-29-2010, 04:04 PM
Well then think of it the same way you'd think of a nationalist European party a la Le Front, Wilders in Holland, or whatever. They gain prominence in the reactions to what they say, not in what they say.

No one's going to be convinced by Mario Spaghetti, because the only people reading him seemingly are you and LM65.

Essentially every time you write a reply and he ignores it and does something else to provoke you, you are encouraging him. I know its tempting and easy to point out how he's wrong, of course it is, cause he's not trying.

I don't know what this sticking head in the sand metaphor is, but like I said, the only people reading him is those who are argue with him. No one else is going through this.

Like I said, if you're enjoying this, keep on going on. But it's no public service, and acting like it is, quite simply is condescending to everyone else.

LM, in the off-chance that you are referring to me. I'd like to clarify that I was not discussing moderator actions, but rhetorical ones.

On that note, Mario Spaghetti should be treated exactly like a rhetorical question.

Little_Miss_1565
09-29-2010, 04:12 PM
I actually thought this thread was the least trolly he's been in recent memory, and considering he has yet to prove he's a sockpuppet and not an actual person, I figured why not engage the discussion. I'm not thinking of "ignorant bystanders" or whatever, and honestly I think it's a little weird of you to go there.

The Talking Pie
09-29-2010, 04:13 PM
You're making the mistake of confusing the vocal minority (that is, MS, myself & LM and yourself & anyone else who 'knows better') with the silent folk who don't feel the need to jump in to the mix. The young, impressionable visitors to this board who may or may not be registered, who really do look to their peers for their opinions. We're not so old in our twenties, now, that we've forgotten how goddamn stupid we were as teenage Offspring fans, are we? Archive.org should be able to dredge up plenty of examples of that for any of us.

Anyway, we should leave this conversation here (PM me if you want to continue the discussion). Let's get back on-topic.

The terror threat in Europe (not the flashing coloured light in the underground caverns of Buckingham Palace, but the real-life threat of a bomb going off at any moment) haven't really been on dim-green up until now (even if one forgets the European jihadist attacks of the last decade). This shit has been going on forever in one form or another. America and the 'war on terror' is nothing new nor special, all things considered.

Harleyquiiinn
09-30-2010, 12:07 AM
Yes it's funny how you think terrorism started with September 11. I suggest you type "Saint Michel 1995" in Google...

mario_spaghettio
09-30-2010, 01:04 PM
I don't think that's when it started. That should have been the wake up call to all Americans to stop being a bunch of tip toeing limp wristed politically correct liberal sissies.

The Talking Pie
09-30-2010, 01:22 PM
Wait... homophobic overtones aside, you're now suggesting that America shouldn't have waited until they were attacked, but should have launched a pre-emptive jihad against Muslims before they (and by 'they' I refer solely to the minority whackjobs) done anything to harm you? I know that 'innocent until proven guilty' isn't a right suspected terrorists enjoy in the US, but not even the Bush administration took it that far. Sure, they invaded two sovereign nations who had no connection to 9/11, but at least they done it in response to something.

Harleyquiiinn
09-30-2010, 01:38 PM
I don't think that's when it started. That should have been the wake up call to all Americans to stop being a bunch of tip toeing limp wristed politically correct liberal sissies.

Yeah, you're absolutely right ! They should have bombed some countries to show their power instead of... oh wait...

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
09-30-2010, 04:45 PM
Yeah, you're absolutely right ! They should have bombed some countries to show their power instead of... oh wait...

if this comment would have been on facebook, I would have "liked" it :)

mario_spaghettio
09-30-2010, 07:30 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100903/wl_nm/us_dutch_wilders
AMSTERDAM (Reuters) – A well-known Australian Muslim cleric has called for the beheading of Dutch anti-Islamic politician Geert Wilders, a newspaper said on Friday.
Wilders' Freedom Party scored the biggest gains in June 9 polls and is currently negotiating to form a new minority government with the Liberals and Christian Democrats. Polls show Wilders would win a new election if one were called now.
Wilders demanded to know why he had learnt about the threat from the newspaper and not from Dutch authorities who are guarding him after a film and remarks he made angered Muslims around the world.
De Telegraaf, the Netherlands' largest newspaper, led its front page on Friday with a story on the speech by Feiz Muhammad.
The Sydney-born Muhammad has gained notoriety for, among other things, calling on young children to be radicalized and blaming rape victims for their own attacks.
The paper posted an English-language audio clip in which he refers to Wilders as "this Satan, this devil, this politician in Holland" and explains that anyone who talks about Islam like Wilders does should be executed by beheading.
De Telegraaf did not say when the speech was given but said it and the Dutch secret service both had copies. According to his website, Muhammad is based in Malaysia.
Wilders told Reuters it was "really terrible news" and that he was taking it seriously.
"I will ask for clarification from the Dutch minister of interior/justice why the secret service and anti-terrorism unit NCTb have not informed me before and what the consequences will be for me," he said in an email.
A spokesman for the Dutch secret service referred inquiries on the threat to the NCTb. A spokeswoman for the NCTb was not available to comment.
Wilders is currently on trial in the Netherlands for inciting hatred and discrimination against Muslims.
The Freedom Party leader made a film in 2008 which accused the Koran of inciting violence and mixed images of terrorist attacks with quotations from the Islamic holy book.
Wilders was also charged because of outspoken remarks in the media, such as an opinion piece in a Dutch daily in which he compared Islam to fascism and the Koran to Adolf Hitler's book "Mein Kampf."
Of late he has been in the news for plans to speak out against a planned mosque in New York City on September 11, the ninth anniversary of the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people.
But his views have also made him extremely popular with a segment of the country uneasy about the Netherlands' commitment to multiculturalism.

Little_Miss_1565
09-30-2010, 08:10 PM
There are crazy people in the world. And?

wheelchairman
09-30-2010, 09:00 PM
You're making the mistake of confusing the vocal minority (that is, MS, myself & LM and yourself & anyone else who 'knows better') with the silent folk who don't feel the need to jump in to the mix. The young, impressionable visitors to this board who may or may not be registered, who really do look to their peers for their opinions. We're not so old in our twenties, now, that we've forgotten how goddamn stupid we were as teenage Offspring fans, are we? Archive.org should be able to dredge up plenty of examples of that for any of us.


I do believe we'd only be rehashing old arguments. You can do as you will, perhaps it will do some good.


I actually thought this thread was the least trolly he's been in recent memory, and considering he has yet to prove he's a sockpuppet and not an actual person, I figured why not engage the discussion. I'm not thinking of "ignorant bystanders" or whatever, and honestly I think it's a little weird of you to go there.
Hmm perhaps, does he ever engage in discussion though? I mean other than starting and provoking. Perhaps my trolldar is askew. I'm not sure what you mean by sockpuppet, another users account, right? A troll doesn't necessarily need to be one.

And as for the last sentence, it was in reference to a comment made by The Vocal Dessert, not to one you made.

mario_spaghettio
10-03-2010, 11:15 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101003/ap_on_bi_ge/europe_terror_threat

By MATTHEW LEE, Associated Press Writer – Sun Oct 3, 8:54 am ET
WASHINGTON – The Obama administration on Sunday warned Americans of potential terrorist threats in Europe and urged them to be vigilant in public places, including tourist spots and transportation hubs.
A State Department travel alert advises U.S. citizens living or traveling in Europe to take more precautions about their personal security. The alert is one step below a formal travel warning advising Americans not to visit Europe.
"Current information suggests that al-Qaida and affiliated organizations continue to plan terrorist attacks," it said. "European governments have taken action to guard against a terrorist attack and some have spoken publicly about the heightened threat conditions."
It noted in particular "the potential for terrorists to attack public transportation systems and other tourist infrastructure."
"U.S. citizens should take every precaution to be aware of their surroundings and to adopt appropriate safety measures to protect themselves when traveling," the department said.
U.S. and European security experts have been concerned for days that terrorists may be plotting attacks in Europe with assault weapons on public places, similar to the deadly 2008 shooting spree in Mumbai, India.
"The terrorist threat exists, and could hit us at any moment," the French defense minister, Herve Morin, said in an interview published Sunday. "Networks organizing themselves to prepare attacks are constantly being dismantled around the world. It is good for the French to know this," he was quoted as saying in the daily Le Parisien.
The U.S. notice said terrorists "may elect to use a variety of means and weapons and target both official and private interests" and noted past attacks against subways, rail systems and aviation and maritime services.
"U.S. citizens should take every precaution to be aware of their surroundings and to adopt appropriate safety measures to protect themselves when traveling," according to the alert.
The alert fell short of a formal travel warning, which could have broader implications including a stronger likelihood of canceled airline and hotel bookings, and wasn't intended to urge travelers to stay away from public places. Europeans and some members of the Obama administration had viewed that as an overreaction.
The alert could hurt European tourism and affect business travel. But there hadn't been strong opposition to the proposed alert from European leaders, who privately have been advised of the impending action, a European official said.
There are hundreds of thousands of Americans in Europe at any one time, including tourists, students and businesspeople. For insurance and liability reasons, many U.S. college and university study-abroad programs will not send students to countries for where a warning is in effect.
U.S.. intelligence officials believe Osama bin Laden is behind the terror plots to attack several European cities. If true, this would be the most operational role that bin Laden has played in plotting attacks since Sept. 11, 2001.
Eight Germans and two British brothers are at the heart of an al-Qaida-linked terror plot against European cities, but the plan is still in its early stages, with the suspects calling acquaintances in Europe to plan logistics, a Pakistani intelligence official said Thursday. One of the Britons died in a recent CIA missile strike, he said.
The Pakistani official said the suspects are hiding in North Waziristan, a Pakistani tribal region where militancy is rife and where the U.S. has focused many of its drone-fired missile strikes.

The Talking Pie
10-03-2010, 12:14 PM
So all of a sudden terrorism does exist in Europe!

mario_spaghettio
10-03-2010, 04:51 PM
So all of a sudden terrorism does exist in Europe!Yes, the ugly faced Islamo fascist pigs have declared war on the entire western world and that includes most of Europe. They want to kill our people and destroy our culture. It's us or them and they've left us no choice.

The Talking Pie
10-03-2010, 05:18 PM
Serious question: you do realise that, even if all the potential suicide bombers in the world blew themselves up in Western urban areas, the overall effect would be negligible compared to, say, the death-toll of a world war (plus then all of the enemy combatants would be dead)? It's really not as serious as you think, in the grand scheme of things. I'm more worried about a war with China than a genuine invasion of Muslim suicide bombers.

wheelchairman
10-03-2010, 06:47 PM
TPP, well that's cause they don't have an unlimited supply.


Yes, the ugly faced Islamo fascist pigs have declared war on the entire western world and that includes most of Europe. They want to kill our people and destroy our culture. It's us or them and they've left us no choice.

So which parts of Europe aren't part of the Western World?

Outerspaceman21
10-03-2010, 06:52 PM
So which parts of Europe aren't part of the Western World?

Most of Europe, apparently.

mario_spaghettio
10-03-2010, 06:56 PM
TPP, well that's cause they don't have an unlimited supply.



So which parts of Europe aren't part of the Western World?Turkey......

Llamas
10-03-2010, 06:57 PM
Turkey......

lolololo this guy is seriously not even trying. debating with him is *so* useless.

wheelchairman
10-03-2010, 07:55 PM
Turkey......

Most Europeans don't know whether Turkey counts as Europe or not. Any otther more clear examples?

samseby
10-04-2010, 06:25 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world

I guess the Bosporus separates the European part of Turkey from its Asian part.

wheelchairman
10-04-2010, 07:11 AM
The Western World, being entirely a human concept about human society, has a lot of ambiguity to it. In fact that wiki page is seemingly more of a collection of definitions, than a singular one.

samseby
10-05-2010, 06:58 AM
So what should the term "Western World" be based on? Culture?

Anyway intelligence reports state Britain, France and Germany as possible targets. Regarding this the German interior minister, Thomas de Maiziθre, was quoted as saying that "there is no reason for alarm", at least in this report:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/1005/1224280400546.html

samseby
10-07-2010, 08:10 AM
Indeed. If I'm not mistaken his ancestors used to live in France.

I found this report today:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20019004-503543.html

I'm not quite sure how to feel about it. Generally it is important to be cautious sure - as long as this caution doesn't turn into scaremongering or is used for political reasons only.