View Full Version : Have Your Favorite Bands Gotten Worse? Or is it You?
12-10-2010, 03:32 AM
Just read this article that talks about Green Day,Weezer, and The Offspring and how they've changed since the 90's. He bashes all of them, but his sentiment about it is one that we often hear from previous fans of the band.
Still,I enjoyed it. Especially his summarization of videos since American Idiot.
The Day The Music Died:
12-10-2010, 04:03 AM
I think it is a common feeling. Not a lot of bands that I was listening back in the 90s still seem good to me. And I couldn't count the number of times I heard someone saying to me "Offspring was great... untill Americana".
IMO that guy lost all credibility with
1) Weezer. I DO like the Red Album. The last one... not so much. But the red Album had some amazing songs.
2) Offspring. The guy is talking about how bands of the 90s suck nowadays. But wait... Pretty Fly ? That was 1998... 12 years ago... This article loses all credibility with that.
12-10-2010, 04:32 AM
I'm kinda getting tired of talk like this. The only thing I might agree with is the mascara thing, but even that isn't that big of a deal. Artists are allowed to evolve, they don't have to keep doing the same thing over and over again. And also, am I the only one who finds Pretty fly kinda similar to COAP? Not the chords and melodies of course, but the feel of the song.. the catchyness of it.
12-10-2010, 04:40 AM
don't forget, you change as well, so the previously loved music can be kinda boring today...
12-10-2010, 05:50 AM
don't forget, you change as well, so the previously loved music can be kinda boring today...
That and I guess, when I was younger I was impressible and I often listened to music my classmates would listen too. I didn't care much about the lyrics and chords and stuff like that so listening to songs I once liked gets pretty "interesting" these days.
Or maybe it feels like bands have gotten worse because fans are spoilt and expect far too much and btw everything seems to be short-lived nowadays anyway with new bands / styles of music popping up every day.
12-10-2010, 12:31 PM
That article was lame. That guy was just a whiny little bitch.
12-10-2010, 02:45 PM
I honestly don't think the new Weezer is so bad. I think people just expect them to never change.
The new Green Day is trash. I can't stand it. But it's not because they stopped playing 3 chord songs about huffing glue and masturbating. "Warning" was a fucking phenomenal album.
And well, I loved the Offspring's last album.
Rancid does not sound anything like they did in like 1998.
"Youstupidgoddamndumbshitmotherfucker. That blew my face off in grade 6. I thought it was the coolest thing ever." Mine, too. Then I grew up and realized that a string of cuss words doesn't make music good, and that music can be awesome without it.
"So all this begs the question: is it my taste in music thatís changing, or the music itself?" You got older, but your taste in music is still the same as it was when you were Eleven Years Old. The bands grew up.
And my strongest feeling from this is regarding his last line. I hate - hate - when people pull that "music these days sucks. It was so much better in xxxx." Our parents said that. Our grandparents said that. Hell, I bet people in the 19th century were yelling, "Fucking hell, Beethoven and Wagner SUCK! People these days don't know good music... we need to bring Bach back!!" It's all so trivial. Music as a whole doesn't get better or worse... we just tend to like what we're used to.
12-10-2010, 02:56 PM
Wait...Rancid is still a band?
The line was actually stupiddumbshitgoddamnmotherfucker. And Smash is supposedly his third favorite album :rolleyes:
He remembers when Green Day had talent, and I remember when columnists had standards to live up to without any Internet to fall back on. Go figure.
Maybe the fanboy deep inside me gets a little irked when someone says stuff like this, but I think it's mainly the complete lack of understanding. Green Day can't write songs about masturbation and smoking weed anymore. The Offspring can't write songs like Self-Esteem anymore. And while Weezer apparently can and do write songs like these, fuck that, Weezer needs to go back to writing songs about sweaters and playing D&D in the garage.
12-10-2010, 03:09 PM
Wait...Rancid is still a band?
They released an album last year, actually. I haven't really given it a listen, but I heard a few songs.
I dunno, if you listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4tn12mcx4o and the a new song like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE0CP0I_bbM
How does this guy think these albums sound the same - similar, even??
12-10-2010, 03:20 PM
I'll give it a better listen tonight. I thought they had broken up...
12-10-2010, 04:01 PM
Boy, I was ready for a good little debate on the current state of these bands and actually engage in a fun, fruitful, conversation about different people's opinions on music. Instead, I read the whole entry only to find out that some bitter "the 90's were the best years" hipster yap about how everybody got old but he didn't.
It's frustrating, I can't seem to have a good talk about my favorite music with mature, open-minded music fans who don't talk like they're apart of Sarah Palin's Tea Party.
12-10-2010, 04:18 PM
Have Your Favorite Bands Gotten Worse? Or is it You?
Well in this case, it was definitely not the bands' fault.
12-10-2010, 06:02 PM
from what ive found, most people think that their kinda teenage years and early adulthood tranisition period were wonderful. your carefree at that age and everything seems great. then when you leave high school, college or university and get out into the real world and your perception changes.
i say this as he does also mention some television shows around the time, now television is full up with reality shows, so he could argue the same point about this changing as well as music. i do feel its people that change, keep in mind that fans of the groups that influenced the likes of green day were probably slating them when they hit the big time, just as he is doing with todays music!
12-13-2010, 12:27 PM
to me it just sounds like the guy misses the ambiance of the 90s, and he wishes he could get it back, by listening to these bands new songs...
The fact of the matter is, I bet ANYTHING if he thought mission from god was a new song, or if there are any outtakes from SMASH and the offspring would record them without changing a note, he would still say it sucked. Because it's subjective and he's prejudice now, and I get that feeling sometimes too.. But the fact is the albums the Offspring puts out are great, green day are always a luke warm thing.. you can count on a few good songs on any given album a nd pretty decent live show.
The dude should listen to can't repeat...
12-13-2010, 01:49 PM
The dude should listen to can't repeat...
haha yeah xD
I think that people change what they like, when I was a kid, I liked the fruitloops, but now I hate them and I eat common cereals.
No matter if the music now is good or bad, because only for "this guy" might be bad, but for many others the new songs are great.
Like we say here in ARG "Gustos son Gustos" you cannot say what people like or not, cause you are not in his mind.
12-13-2010, 05:50 PM
ya so i will agree those bands are not as good as they used to be but this person really does not make any valid points supporting it.
12-13-2010, 11:28 PM
its funny how people say "the offspring sold out after smash" - ahhh ixnay was more of a punk album don't you tihnk?
americana is such a cool album. what is so bad about american idiot or pretty fly....
12-14-2010, 05:35 AM
Nothing (if they aren't compared to older songs some might maybe say ;)).
Perhaps these songs are just "different" and not "worse". Just a theory ...
Some allow the artist to evolve - others don't. Some fans stay with their bands after they change - others don't - and new fans often like the new stuff a lot more than they would have liked the old stuff.
12-14-2010, 08:19 AM
That discussion reminds me of another one. "In the 60s music was so much better!" I'm not turnin' into grandpa right now and I love The Offspring's music till now, every album. Get over that stupid "the glory days" thing. So no, bands ain't getting worse now, they just slightly change.
12-15-2010, 04:00 PM
It's the bands that changed. It could also be us whose musical tastes have changed. Mine have expanded but not moved from point A to point B. Still, the year 1994 could sum it all up for me. Smash, Punk In Drublic, Let's Go, Dookie, Stranger than Fiction. Holy shit!
Now, I feel like it, but I simply cannot blame the bands for growing up or for losing the ability to write songs like they once used to (both of these factors seem to be the case in the Offspring).
However, I do blame bands for selling out. Doing for money what they once did out of love. Erm, Green Day much?
I also blame bands for making wrong production choices. RAFRAG sounds like shit quality wise. Compare let's Come out Swinging and Hammerhead (audio quality) and hear for yourself.
As for the "music was so much better back in [...]!!!" thing, I have to agree but not fully. Music has always evolved so saying that Bad Religion is shit compared to the Who, or that the Who is shit compared to the Beach Boys, or that the Beach Boys are shit compared to Beethoven etc. is just wrong. They differ. They learned from each other. They're awesome in their own ways.
However, I feel like the evolution stopped with the beginning of the 21st century. Music industry is filled with passionless synthesizers and while record companies have probably always been all about the $$$, the pursuit of money has never leaked into songwriting THAT much.
I'm tired of looking at all those pop and rap stars who are convinced that they are the shit. I'm tired of all those braggy lyrics about money, possessions, partying and having sex with different people every night etc. I'm tired of that bitch Lady Gaga acting like a bitch and looking down on other people, especially on her co-workers, with the exception of her fans, just because they bring the $$$.
How do you express your style, years of experience, the passion, how do you add your own feel, how do you get your signature tone - on a laptop?
How fun is writing songs not based on how you want them but on how much money they will make? How come the entire pop genre uses the exact same drum loop over and over again? What about having to shoot a slutty video clip to every song that could bring some more $$$?
What does it feel like to do a precisely planned performance with hired dancers instead of a concert? Where's the friendship, the teamwork? Where's the fun? Where's the actual music? Who plays drums? Where's the bassist? Really, Mr. Laptop once again? How do you rehearse? Cause you sound fucking awesome live. I can't tell the difference between the studio album and the live performance.
This is why I fucking hate modern synth music and it will always be inferior to real (real instrument) music to me. There I said it. INFERIOR.
P.S. I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. If I did, I'm sorry. Also, sorry about the chaotic writing but I don't feel like proof-reading.
12-16-2010, 06:04 AM
^ Hey, I resent (some of) that. Synths need programming, so it's entirely possible to give them your own feel. The problem with current pop music trends is that the same guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RedOne) is producing most of it, and apparently in pop music land producing means "writing all of the fucking music."
Also, even Lady GaGa has a live band, but don't ask me why I know that. :P
12-16-2010, 08:26 AM
mspunk13, Bjork once said 'If there's no soul in the music, it's because no one put it there; it's not the tool's fault.' Yaz is one example of when an entirely synthesizer-driven band has loads of emotion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnI4qQ0-HRI. Also, everyone I know who's ever met or worked with Lady Gaga says she's a sweetheart who treats everyone around her very well, so I'm not sure where you're getting all this other than maybe you're just projecting.
And yes, ThunderPx, Gaga has a live band and they're amazing. I saw her twice this year and her guitarists were on some serious Iron Maiden shit. It was awesome.
And also, I'm not sure what the problem is with music being "all about the money." As long as there is some sort of artistic expression in it, whether it's in talent or soul or what, what does it matter that they're getting paid hand over fist now?
I've never believed in "selling out" for the most part. Getting wealthy doing what you love is the American dream. Unless a band spends several albums specifically preaching against going mainstream, signing onto a major label, and writing music to suit whatever will sell the most, and then ends up doing all of that, the term really carries no meaning for me.
12-16-2010, 05:53 PM
I'm sorry, I tend to get overly excited and I often write more than I should. I'm driven by a strong hatred for modern synth-based pop music because it slowly (or not so slowly anymore) kills rock music, the love of my life.
I chose Lady Gaga as the object of my "attack" because she's actually one of the few pop stars that I'd cared enough to read about. Believe it or not, I've read 5-7 articles about her and all of them pretty much stated she was a bitch. I don't know, maybe these articles were just to gain attraction, maybe she's a nice person - I just don't know. I've never met her and I'm not planning on it.
What I've read - I swear I did, I'm not projecting anything, you can even google it - is that one fan in Japan managed to get on stage during her concert, she freaked the fuck out and fired the entire security crew (while in Japan!) because of that. Defend her if you want, but in my eyes she acted like a complete bitch.
Another time, she told her dancers that they were all married to her and that it was strictly forbidden for them to have sex while on tour. I shit you not. She actually banned them from having sex.
Now, I don't remember the rest of the articles so well but one of them was about her complete outrage in a restaurant because somebody snapped a photo of her.
We all know that modern pop music is all about synths (I'll come back to them later) and although it is really cool that Lady Gaga is in a live band, it doesn't change absolutely anything about the genre as a whole.
Still, maybe she wasn't the right star to choose, so I'm sorry.
I will explain what my problem is with music being all about the money: it has leaked into songwriting. There are ridiculous amounts of songs full of self-glorification, stating that coolness and happiness is fully based on possessions. Oh, wait, AND being a slut/alcoholic/pimp (Pussycat Dolls, Ke$ha who is not fading out like she was supposed to, Fergie and pretty much the entire urban music industry).
Now, about the synths: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone, I know I really shouldn't treat electronic music as inferior to real-instrument music, but I do, I just do and I'll give a reason why. I didn't mean to describe electronic music as passionless overall, I meant more like, putting the passion into your instrument (and let's stick to the instruments for now, maybe all that teamwork and friendship rant was too much). Synths do need programming, but you can program them exactly the way somebody else did. You can buy the same software/synthesizer and you'll get the same tone. Set the tempo, create a MIDI map, play with note velocities. I actually did some programming (virtual orchestral instruments, drums and modern synths a little bit) and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get my own sound. I'm always dependent on some dudes sitting in front of their computers, releasing new products every now and then.
Now, go get a Mark Knopfler signature Strat and his amp. Will you ever play that last Sultans of Swing lick the way he did? The answer is no. I've been practicing that solo for ages and now it's a piece of cake for me to play, but still, I play it the way I play it and noone will ever play it the same way. That's the beauty of instruments. Or, at least, that's the beauty that I see. If Slash, Van Halen and Zakk Wylde were supposed to play the same riff, using the same guitars, would they really play it the same way? I think you'd still be able to hear their very own style shining through.
In your eyes (hehe, I'm abusing this term, but my limited vocabulary knowledge is... limiting! :)) I may look like an over-analyzing freak, but that's the way I feel. Or, rather, that's the way I feel right now. I will probably wake up tomorrow and realize that I did it once again, I let the emotions take over. I'm really tired right now and all that I've written might be complete bullshit, but (again) I don't feel like proofreading.
12-17-2010, 03:07 AM
You can most definitely change the tone of a synth; the presets are just supposed to be starting points. Here's the first Google Image Search result for "synthesizer":
All those knobs are meant for changing the sound. Additionally, you can play a synthesizer just like any other keyboard--I'm aware that most synth-driven music programs it, but I can't help but feel a little bit offended that good electronic music is being lumped in with faux-hiphop dog shit like Ke$ha. It's sort of like saying that the Offspring suck because you don't like Avril Lavigne.
12-17-2010, 08:46 AM
MSPunk, you can't hold a celebrity responsible for the ridiculous things people say about them. Also, someone in Japan got arrested and thrown out of the show for jumping onstage? How is this an example of Gaga being a crazy bitch? There is so much going on on that stage that people who aren't supposed to be there could get seriously hurt, and besides, it's a serious safety threat to Gaga herself. If you were one of the biggest celebrities in the world, would you wait to find out if someone coming at you while you're onstage wants to hug you or stab you? If I had been her, I would have fired the entire security staff too. We've been over this a lot in that other thread about people jumping onstage during shows, so I dont' want to turn this into another debate. But it's completely inappropriate to jump onstage during a Gaga show.
Also, if rock is dying, it's not synthesizers that are killing it. These things come in waves anyway. 80s synthpop gave way to metal and glam rock which gave way to grunge which gave way to again to synth-driven dance stuff which gave way again to rock. We're just in a synth-driven upswing right now. Rock will come back when someone has something interesting to say with it again.
Everything Thunder said is true. One of the things coming back about synth music is the use of analog instruments versus the midi-driven all-digital ones, and it's a lot more hands-on to manipulate the sound of analog synths. The high priest of analog synths is Vince Clarke (of Depeche Mode, Erasure, and Yaz fame) and this is how he does it: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/03/analog_synth_heaven_with_vince_clar.html
12-17-2010, 05:01 PM
Arguing about Lady Gaga, jumping onstage or whether and why rock is dying is indeed pretty pointless, so I'm just going to stop right here - it might have seemed like it, but I really don't want to start a war. And although I don't fully agree with all your views, please know that I absolutely respect them.
However, when it comes to the synthesizers, I don't know if it's me not being precise enough, or if it's you missing my point.
I'm not nearly as uneducated in the field of snyth-based music as you think. How about I send you a picture of a guitar amp and tell you that all these knobs are meant for changing the sound? Believe it or not, I do know that analog synthesizers exist, I enjoy listening to bands utilizing analog synthesizers (like Enter Shikari and many classic rock bands, like the Who, the Doors), I can distinguish between analog and software synthesizers, I know that you can get countless sounds from them, I have a MIDI controller at home and I think that synthesizers can sound very awesome, especially when well-incorporated into a song and they're really fun to use. But it's not my point. You can always use the exact same settings to try to cover a song, or recreate your favorite musician's tone, no matter if it's an analog or digital synth, or a guitar, a drum set or a trumpet. But with a synth it ends right there. With a guitar, you still have countless possibilities to personalize your tone. Synths feel like toys after you pick up your guitar.
To make things clear:
- I personally hate fully-electronic music, although I'm sure there's a lot of great (and a lot of bad) electronic music out there
- I think that most of today's mainstream pop music totally sucks. Because of the message they bring, or rather the lack of it, and because of the overused, generic, lame loops.
- synths can be awesome when used right (which I stated earlier in my post) but I still think that they are inferior to real instruments because of the vast difference in the amount of factors that affect your tone. That also makes synths poor live instruments compared to real instruments.
12-18-2010, 03:34 PM
everyday a same story -.-""
12-20-2010, 05:54 PM
i think it's just true they've changed. the only exception i can maybe think of is social distortion. i still like new albums by bad religion and the offspring. a lot of it in my opinion is that these guys want to age gracefully and hence their formula changes a lot it's not always about going mainstreams (in the case of some bands it's almost the opposite)
an example of a band who've gone back to thir roots would be alkaline trio and bad religion did it in the albums preceding this last one and these things are normally more respectful but lack the passion, hunger and almost expectations of their earlier times. i think social distortion pulled it off cause they evolved a unique sound gradually in their early days and when they wanted to change they went back to basics with a fresh twist (around the era of white light, white heat...) rather than being too immodest to think they could just swap what they're doing and it'd work... of course it'd work we're successful experienced musicians. yeah you are, in your own field.
i didn't intend to write this much and end by saying no, i am not an ad man for social distortion's new album: hard times and nursery rhymes, available january 2011.
01-02-2011, 07:55 AM
Of course after 3 or 4 successful albums things are bound to change,they are no longer 20 somethings trying to make it,they are grown men in there 40s,so inevitbly things are going to be different.I myself am a fan of the older work and rarely listen to albums after Ixnay,but thats not saying its bad,its just not the music from them i like.will that keep me from going to there shows fuck no i will be at the next one like i was at the 10 before.
01-03-2011, 08:12 AM
I personally prefer the older Offspring songs, but I guess you get used to the way a band sounds and anything new and different can be a bit hard to take in. All subjective anyway. To an extent at least
01-03-2011, 06:23 PM
There's definitely something to be said for the raw sound of the earlier albums (though I can't stand the "quality" of Self Titled). Thankfully, as the sound has become more polished, so to has Dexter's writing (in my opinion).
I love most of Smash (both songwise and soundwise) but I wouldn't want to not have songs like Denial, Revisited and Half-Truism - both, I would guess, probably took more time to write and record than anything from Smash.
So there's the actual production value that people can either favour or complain about. Then there's the songs themselves (melodies, instrumentation, etc.). Again, I feel pretty much the same way. Though I love most of the songs from Ignition and Smash (I just cannot make this claim for ST) I also love at the very least 3 or 4 songs (usually more) from each of their subsequent albums.
I've been an Offspring fan for more years than I had lived before I ever heard of them. (Make sense to any of you ;)) Dexter isn't in his mid-twenties and I'm not a young teen, so neither one of us should be the same.
I know I can't give a definitive answer here. I can only voice either opinions or try to give reasons as to the "changes" that have occured over time since any of us started listening to the Offspring (or any other band).
I still love the band and their music. It's likely my mind (as opposed to the band) that has had the biggest effect on the degree to which that can be said. Which leaves me quoting George Costanza... "It's not you, it's me."
01-08-2011, 12:59 PM
I just realized this the other day, you know why a lot of rappers make songs about having money, and living large? They do it because when they were younger they never thought they were going to have these kind of things. They grew up in the fucking projects of whatever city they grew up in, and now they're these multimillion dollar homeowners, and they earned all that money from the skills they have. If I had grown up in some shitty ass neighborhood and i had first had to sell drugs to earn a paycheck just because i couldn't find work, I'd be braggin about my money now to. The messages in today's pop music are exactly the same as they were back then. Let's all get high lets all fuck lets all just do watever the fuck they want. You listen to shit like the rock'n'roll from the fifties, that shit is dirty as fuck, but back then no one knew because they used inuendos and shit. Now we have a more liberal society so now we can be more open about it. I can't stand a lot of pop music, But only because most of them use autotune and they have these giant collectives write their music. Lady gaga writes her own music, uses her own voice(lets be honest her voice isn't all that exceptional) but luckily her songs are fucking catchy as shit so Its justifiable. The last Green Day album was shitty because I think they tried to hard to emmulate AI again. It seemed rushed, while AI was this thing that came out of no where and it was actually good cuz they took their time on it. The offspring seem to have become boring, predictable and kinda sad. I just sold my copy of Rage and Grace or whatever its called. They see what's cool they take some of those elements, and then write their normal songs but with those weird elements from the popular stuff. End of rant.... for now.
01-08-2011, 02:04 PM
I just realized this the other day, you know why a lot of rappers make songs about having money, and living large? They do it because when they were younger they never thought they were going to have these kind of things.
Heh, you're just figuring that out? But you're very right. That's why they do it. The problem is that most rappers who talk about things like that do so before they see a single dollar for their efforts. And that is where they get no love from me. Music should never be an episode of MTV Cribs set to a phat beat. That's the exact opposite of art.
The messages in today's pop music are exactly the same as they were back then. Let's all get high lets all fuck lets all just do watever the fuck they want. You listen to shit like the rock'n'roll from the fifties, that shit is dirty as fuck, but back then no one knew because they used inuendos and shit.
So true! It's like a game trying to decipher the lyrics from some of those old songs. Quite fun.
I can't stand a lot of pop music, But only because most of them use autotune and they have these giant collectives write their music. Lady gaga writes her own music, uses her own voice(lets be honest her voice isn't all that exceptional) but luckily her songs are fucking catchy as shit so Its justifiable.
The last Green Day album was shitty because I think they tried to hard to emmulate AI again. It seemed rushed, while AI was this thing that came out of no where and it was actually good cuz they took their time on it.
American Idiot was written in three months, and rocks because it's awesome. 21st Century Breakdown was written in like 5 years, and sucks because it sucks. I don't think they were trying to emulate AI, but rather trying to evolve from that too quickly, too soon.
01-08-2011, 03:38 PM
Some of them actually have that shit by the time they become huge.... it can be pretty cheap to record music, especially hip-hop, they probably used all their advancement checks on the cars and everything. More power to them. I'd rather listen to a song version of cribs then listen to some guy with his balls stuck in a vice screech about Lord Of The Rings. At least the rappers can rhyme.
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