PDA

View Full Version : Vegetarianism



bighead384
10-02-2011, 10:31 PM
What are your thoughts on vegetarianism?

Sure, there's been plenty of these threads before, but I want to see how a discussion might go with my state of mind at this moment in time.

mario_spaghettio
10-02-2011, 11:10 PM
Vegetarians make about as much sense as the Amish.

Alison
10-03-2011, 03:43 AM
I'm a vegetarian because I don't agree with how the animals are raised for food, and I don't want to contribute any money toward the industry.
I don't care if people are or are not vegetarians, I've got over that stage of my life, but I just can't stand when people criticise my choice ignorantly, especially when it doesn't impact on them in any way.

Jojan
10-03-2011, 04:18 AM
I understand them.

I do not understand those who hate vegetarians and vegans. Their only argument is something in the ways of "We are meant to eat meat". Then the question is "Who decided that?". Meat eating have been important for the growth of our brain, but now it is big enough to think for ourselves now, and make own decisions.

Omni
10-03-2011, 05:17 AM
I'm not a vegetarian, but I did try to give up red meat once for a brief period. Harder than I thought.

coke_a_holic
10-03-2011, 08:59 AM
I'm a mostly vegetarian out of white guilt and also because I'm a commie liberal faggot :confused::confused::confused::confused:

personal_loans_1
10-03-2011, 09:44 AM
I never liked pork of beef. I eat meat about twice a week, it's usually poultry or fish. I'd like to call it semi-vegetariansm but it's rather healthy balanced diet.

Llamas
10-03-2011, 10:03 AM
I consider being a vegetarian a lot when I see the kind of shit our meat is injected with, and how disgustingly the animals are treated. But I'm also lazy, and meat is too hard to avoid for someone who enjoys going out to eat regularly. When I'm at home, though, I don't really cook with meat much. I respect vegetarianism, but veganism is a bit too much, in my opinion.

Jakebert
10-03-2011, 10:05 AM
I'm not a vegetarian, but I have no problem with those who are, as long as they're not obnoxious about it. And I've only actually met one or two obnoxious vegetarians in my entire life.

Also, I do really, really love vegetarian food. There's a restaurant I go to in Cleveland all the time that has incredible vegetarian chili that's better and spicier than most meat chili's I've had.

Llamas
10-03-2011, 10:13 AM
Oh yeah, Jakebert's post reminded me that I love vegetarian food. It's often much tastier than normal food, but I'm not that good of a cook, so if I try to cook vegetarian stuff, it ends up tasting lame.

There's this alternative place near me that serves these seitan kebab sandwiches, and they're amazing. They're cheaper than the kebabs that are from meat, and they actually taste so much better. There's also a vegetarian restaurant in the city I lived in in CZ, and it's amazing. I never knew wtf I was eating, and it was always super delicious.

personal_loans_1
10-03-2011, 11:10 AM
Vegetarian meals have to be more varied, that's why I like them too.
Since I've discovered soya pates in many different tastes, I don't touch regular one, and they actually taste better. I feel better when that something I eat that doesn't look like meat anyway isn't meat in fact.

I've heard about people who (parents) had problem with school when stuff found out that their kid is raised vegan, even though she was healthy and had regular tests. That was funny because the reaction was just like that poor girl was beaten or something.

coke_a_holic
10-03-2011, 11:14 AM
Being vegetarian gives me a great sense of superiority over "normal" people. I can totally eat bullshit like Macaroni And Cheese Sandwiches and still tell people that I eat better than them because I didn't put any meat in it.

Come at me, bro.

EDIT: http://i.imgur.com/7HIY6.jpg

yeah.

Llamas
10-03-2011, 11:44 AM
That looks delicious. stfu.

calichix
10-03-2011, 11:44 AM
I try to eat meat about once a month for lady health reasons and when I do it's got to be wild and sustainable or if I'm desperate I'll get buffalo, which is usually semi-wild and always grass fed. I get a lot of energy from eating a little meat every now and then, but if I eat it for like 2 meals in a row I hate that heavy, greasy feeling. it feels like *being* a cow or a pig.

sustainable because over-hunting fucks up the entire ecosystem.

wild, because it tastes better, the animal wasn't pumped full of mysterious unnatural substances and fed things its allergic to so that its flesh is sweeter, it wasn't fed its own shit, it didn't spend its life in agony (look at a person who has spent his life in agony- it's got to work the same way for a cow- and I'm not trying to eat that).

Offspring-Junkie
10-03-2011, 11:45 AM
I can't sleep well until I know that innocent animals died in vain for my sweet and bloody pleasure. Mmmm...

calichix
10-03-2011, 11:50 AM
ps. our intestines are more similar to an herbivore's intestines than to a carnivore's. a carnivore's intestines are usually really short. ours are miles long for processing ruffage. apes don't eat zebras, they eat little mice and bugs if they eat meat at all.

Llamas
10-03-2011, 12:26 PM
if I eat it for like 2 meals in a row I hate that heavy, greasy feeling. it feels like *being* a cow or a pig.

I feel the same way when I eat like, meat meat. When I eat meat, it's a small ingredient in a meal. Right now I'm having thick, fresh baked bread, topped with feta, fresh tomatoes and peppers from my gf's parent's garden, and a little bit of sliced salami. That little bit of meat is for flavor, but I can't standing eating like, a chicken breast or an entire steak. People always question me when I go out to eat - why do I always get pasta or pizza or stuff I can make at home? Why don't I get the steak or the grilled duck? Simply, I just don't feel that great after eating that much meat, and I really don't enjoy the taste that much. I need more flavors, because frankly, meat really just doesn't taste that good as its own thing.


I can't sleep well until I know that innocent animals died in vain for my sweet and bloody pleasure. Mmmm...
Unless you're about to tell me this is true - that you have bad sleep if this doesn't happen - or that this is a satirical comment regarding meat eaters, this ranks with all the other "over-done and not even remotely funny" 'jokes' that usually hard-headed men make. It goes along with jokes about being a carnivore and asking girls who tell you they're bi or lesbians if you can watch or take video. I don't care what people eat, or what their sexual fantasies are... but enough with the predictable and lame "jokes", if you can call them that.


ps. our intestines are more similar to an herbivore's intestines than to a carnivore's. a carnivore's intestines are usually really short. ours are miles long for processing ruffage. apes don't eat zebras, they eat little mice and bugs if they eat meat at all.

Our teeth are also much, much more like those of an herbivore than a carnivore. The "we were meant to eat meat" argument is probably the weakest one. Were we also meant to cook it in the microwave or deep-fry it in unnatural oil?

mrconeman
10-03-2011, 12:53 PM
I've never considered actually becoming a vegetarian, and I pretty much know that it will never happen, unless fate forbid, I get some health problem and if I ever eat any form of meat again I will die. I do hate the way animals are treated during their life time growing up to become my Sunday lunch, and I'd rather eat the more "ethical" food all the time, but sometimes it's just not financially feesible. And who doesn't love bacon? I mean fucking seriously.

I just ate some mighty fine chicken tortilla wraps, there was vegetation of some kind in there, sure, but I couldn't tell you what it was, for two reasons:
1. I didn't make it
2. It doesn't have a particular taste, especially not when chicken is around.

But yeah, I honestly do not care what other people eat, and find it a struggle to believe anyone out there honestly has a problem with vegetarians diets. The problem lies with their attitude - and even then its a small minority of annoyingly vocal vegans - who most people probably still think is someone that practices witch craft.

bighead384
10-03-2011, 01:35 PM
When people believe something is immoral, they usually try to stop others from doing it. If someone has the belief that eating meat is wrong, what is the unique dynamic about vegetarianism that should prevent the vegetarian to from trying to convince others to become vegetarians?

I guess it depends how they do this. But I've never seen any vegetarians really cross the line.

Jakebert
10-03-2011, 05:50 PM
I think vegetarians just understand that there's a relativism in the ethics of their decision.

I've had vegetarians tell me why they think my love of hot wings and steak is without being rude, and I've always listened respectfully even if I disagree. I think vegetarians are usually given such respect, which does make them a little less volatile and pushy compared to other groups with minority beliefs, such as atheists or whatever else.

Outerspaceman21
10-03-2011, 06:38 PM
I really don't think much of it. I dislike people who get all high and mighty because they are a vegetarian/vegan and frown on others for eating meat, but overall I think it's a cool diet. Personally, I don't care much for meat (ei chicken, beef, pork, etc), so when I'm on my own, I tend to eat more grains, fruits and vegetables, but when I'm with my fam, I eat meat. The only meat I enjoy is Fish, to which there is a sect of vegetarians that do eat fish called Pescetarianism. I've considered going under that label, but I've gotten to a point where I don't care anymore about labels and things of the sort.

also, the sandwich looks awesome.

Little_Miss_1565
10-03-2011, 06:50 PM
I quit being vegetarian a few years ago after nearly 7 years. I don't regret it and it was the right thing for me to do at the time. That said, I still don't eat a whole lot of it, and I think unrealistic portion sizes have done a lot to give meat eating in general a bad name. (Though, for reasons already stated in this thread in quite eloquent ways, you should pay close attention to where your food comes from and what treatment it's been subjected to.)

A serving of meat is only 3 to 4 oz and contains around 20-30 mg of protein (depending on the type of meat). Contrary to popular belief, you don't need that much protein a day - only, say, 60-90 mg. Many people eat upwards of 120 mg a day.

One of the biggest bullshit statements people used to get in my face about when I was vegetarian is that I wasn't eating enough protein. Between tofu/soybeans and seitan ("wheat meat," vital wheat gluten), I was getting PLENTY. A 6 oz portion of seitan contains nearly 60 mg of protein, not to mention it's goddamn tasty, too. I love the everloving shit out of buffalo seitan wings.

I too dislike people who get high and mighty about being vegetarian, but people can be just as obnoxious about meat eating.

Omni
10-03-2011, 06:59 PM
One of the biggest bullshit statements people used to get in my face about when I was vegetarian is that I wasn't eating enough protein. Between tofu/soybeans and seitan ("wheat meat," vital wheat gluten), I was getting PLENTY. A 6 oz portion of seitan contains nearly 60 mg of protein, not to mention it's goddamn tasty, too. I love the everloving shit out of buffalo seitan wings.


I love the goddamn shit out of a good protein shake (made with milk, not water, of course). When I went to the gym regularly a few years back, it was the highlight of the day usually.


So, did you mean the average person only needs about 90 mg a day, or everyone? People who workout consume more protein because it helps muscles heal faster, so they would need more, right?

Apathy
10-03-2011, 08:13 PM
Not that I'm a doctor Omni, but in the few Biology classes I've taken I'm pretty sure I learned at some point that yes, people who exercise often (specifically muscle building exercises) should ingest a higher amount of protein than others. But many of them may be overdoing it a bit also.

I was a vegetarian for about a year. I really want to do it again, entirely because I feel guilty about the treatment of the animals. I just can never seem to avoid the taste. I love meat. Burgers, Steaks, Chicken....it's all delicious. I really wish I didn't love it so much, because it really just pushes me to feel even more guilty about it.

The meat substitutes are okay. I got by for a year on them. I was a bit worried that soy apparently contains large amounts of estrogen and I was told by my doctor it could lead to production of man-boobies. Plus they're kinda expensive. Veggies are cheap, but c'mon, veggies suck. Mostly I stopped because I could no longer resist my darkest temptation.

I am interested in this seitan business people are mentioning though. What is it? Readily available? More informations?

Llamas
10-03-2011, 08:24 PM
Not that I'm a doctor Omni, but in the few Biology classes I've taken I'm pretty sure I learned at some point that yes, people who exercise often (specifically muscle building exercises) should ingest a higher amount of protein than others. But many of them may be overdoing it a bit also.

This is true. All around.



The meat substitutes are okay. I got by for a year on them. I was a bit worried that soy apparently contains large amounts of estrogen and I was told by my doctor it could lead to production of man-boobies. Plus they're kinda expensive. Veggies are cheap, but c'mon, veggies suck. Mostly I stopped because I could no longer resist my darkest temptation.
Only if you're ridiculously outta shape... otherwise should be okay :P


I am interested in this seitan business people are mentioning though. What is it? Readily available? More informations?

It's wheat gluten. It's an alternative to soy meat, and in my opinion it's way, way better. I never had it in the US, so I have no idea how available it is there... but you can buy it in the grocery stores, pretty sure.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/Packaged_Seitan.JPG

It's delicious. The first time I had a seitan sandwich, I had no idea it was vegetarian. I thought I'd just had a burger.

bighead384
10-03-2011, 10:00 PM
I think vegetarians just understand that there's a relativism in the ethics of their decision.

I don't understand this statement. If I didn't kind of imply it well enough, I'm referring mostly to ethical vegetarianism in this thread. What sort of personal philosophy could overcome the perceived universal immorality inherent in the beliefs of an ethical vegetarian?

The initial thought that pushed me over the line to vegetarianism (I've been vegetarian for 5+ years) was basically that I wouldn't eat meat if I had to kill myself, so why should I do it just because businesses are doing it for me? Does this thought strike a chord with anyone?

bighead384
10-03-2011, 10:09 PM
The meat substitutes are okay. I got by for a year on them. I was a bit worried that soy apparently contains large amounts of estrogen and I was told by my doctor it could lead to production of man-boobies. Plus they're kinda expensive. Veggies are cheap, but c'mon, veggies suck. Mostly I stopped because I could no longer resist my darkest temptation.
That's crazy and I didn't know that. It's as if nature is aware of stupid macho sentiments like "if you don't eat meat, you're a BITCH", and is playing long with the joke.

Oh yeah, and veggies don't suck, you just need to know how to prepare them or how to feature them in dishes. Which tends to generally involve more cooking and prep, making them a pain. But I wouldn't say they suck.

jacknife737
10-04-2011, 12:36 AM
I'm not a vegetarian, but i've got no issue with them. I could even see myself becoming one fairly easily, though i could never give up dairy so i couldn't cross over into veganism: but there are usually 1 or 2 days out of the week that i don't consume any meat, and that's not due to a conscious choice either: it's just part of my standard dietary trends.

Vegan restaurants can actually be pretty tasty as well (though, as silly as this sounds, they'd be a lot better if some of their dishes were cooked with butter).

On a semi related notes: sometimes i like to order a veggie burger at restaurants, but with bacon and cheese: i just like seeing the server's reaction.

WebDudette
10-04-2011, 02:55 AM
If someone is a vegetarian for ethical reasons, why aren't they straight up vegans? I mean, it's possible that a lot of vegetarians drink milk from cows that are treated humanely and only eat free range eggs or whatever. Some though, aren't eating meat, but are still drinking milk from poorly treated, tortured cows.

I think I could be vegetarian/vegan if I just had an endless supply of food or someone to make it for me. I mean, I could eat Indian food, fruits, and quinoa salad for the rest of my life. I am not particularly fond of faux meat dishes or meat replacements though. There is a relatively popular vegan place in Tempe that has a bunch of different foods, but everything I've had was over-seasoned or just kind of... I don't know, mushy I guess. Not mushy texture wise, but mushy in the sens that it all just tasted the same, if that makes any sense at all. Real vegetarian and vegan food though, is great. I even like tofu as long as it's not supposed to be chicken replacement.

I don't typically get tired of meat. Steak is really awesome sometimes, but too much of it is just awful and boring. A huge slab of steak just isn't that appetizing.

I think not all ethical vegetarians are militant, because like all other subcultures, a large percentage of them realize that not everyone is going to make the same life choices that they have. I find things wrong and immoral, but don't try to change other peoples lives based on my beliefs. If it really bothers me I just distance myself from them. I mean, you can respectfully debate, but sometimes you just have to accept that you can't be friends with everyone and you can't change everyone's mind.

RageAndLov
10-04-2011, 03:37 AM
I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't have a problem with vegetarians, as long they actually are vegetarian. I know some people who claim to be vegetarian, yet they keep eating fish.
Oh and vegans and fruitarians are crazy.

WebDudette
10-04-2011, 03:42 AM
I went to grade school with a girl who claimed she was a vegetarian but she had to eat meat one a week to stay healthy.

Alison
10-04-2011, 05:48 AM
If someone is a vegetarian for ethical reasons, why aren't they straight up vegans? I mean, it's possible that a lot of vegetarians drink milk from cows that are treated humanely and only eat free range eggs or whatever. Some though, aren't eating meat, but are still drinking milk from poorly treated, tortured cows.


I agree here. There is a lot of cruelty going on with dairy products also. I do plan on trying to be vegan one day, but at the moment, where I live, there really isn't much resources for vegans at all. When I eventually move out of home I think I will have a stab at it and see how it goes.


I don't push my ideas on people, because when it comes down to vegetarianism, people do not react well to preaching. If you preach to someone about meat, it's probably gonna turn them more against you. I think it's better to just be quiet about it and not be an annoying cunt, cause that gets you nowhere.

personal_loans_1
10-04-2011, 09:42 AM
I guess Bible says that fish and birds are not meat. High science vol. 1564568

And isn't that, sure, plants have a looot of proteins but you can't have all essential amino acids in one? While every kind of meat has it? And that's why 'meat is uber alles'? But I may be wrong.

My uncle who lives in the country has 5 - 10 cows, they eat grass and are happy happy cows. He drink like maybe 10% of milk he gets, (milking cows manually, I tried it once, ha) and sales the rest under commercial brand. There are a lot little farms that provide supplies to big companies that are synonym of bad animal treatment.

coke_a_holic
10-04-2011, 10:59 AM
There is a relatively popular vegan place in Tempe.

Please, god, tell me it's called Tempeh.

Little_Miss_1565
10-04-2011, 11:55 AM
I guess Bible says that fish and birds are not meat. High science vol. 1564568

And isn't that, sure, plants have a looot of proteins but you can't have all essential amino acids in one? While every kind of meat has it? And that's why 'meat is uber alles'? But I may be wrong.

My uncle who lives in the country has 5 - 10 cows, they eat grass and are happy happy cows. He drink like maybe 10% of milk he gets, (milking cows manually, I tried it once, ha) and sales the rest under commercial brand. There are a lot little farms that provide supplies to big companies that are synonym of bad animal treatment.

You are wrong. But I am glad your uncle's farm is so awesome.


Please, god, tell me it's called Tempeh.

If it's not, protest.

Offspring-Junkie
10-04-2011, 12:05 PM
Unless you're about to tell me this is true - that you have bad sleep if this doesn't happen - or that this is a satirical comment regarding meat eaters, this ranks with all the other "over-done and not even remotely funny" 'jokes' that usually hard-headed men make. It goes along with jokes about being a carnivore and asking girls who tell you they're bi or lesbians if you can watch or take video. I don't care what people eat, or what their sexual fantasies are... but enough with the predictable and lame "jokes", if you can call them that.


I don't care. Lesbian cheerleaders, yay!

Llamas
10-04-2011, 12:42 PM
I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't have a problem with vegetarians, as long they actually are vegetarian. I know some people who claim to be vegetarian, yet they keep eating fish.
Oh and vegans and fruitarians are crazy.

Pescetarians are what you call people who are vegetarians but still eat fish. I think most of them are on their way to becoming vegetarian, and it's just the first big step. Some might try to rationalize that fish aren't treated as badly or something, though.

Just looked up fruitarians... holy hell, that's insane. Like you, I respect vegetarians. Their ethics are sound and living a vegetarian life is very feasible. Vegans are a little bit whoa to me, but I can hold my tongue and deal with it. Fruitarians, though... wtf. Seriously. There's nothing sane going on there. And I hardly think a vegan lifestyle is very healthy (you really can't be very athletic on a vegan diet)... but fruitarians must develop some serious health problems after some time.


I went to grade school with a girl who claimed she was a vegetarian but she had to eat meat one a week to stay healthy.

Emails from an Asshole:

Original ad:
Hey there! My roommate and I are looking for another housemate. We live in a large apartment in Upper Darby. There are two bedrooms and a spacious living area. The rent is $250 a month, which includes cable, internet, electric, and water.

My roommate and I are both vegans and will only live with another vegan. IF YOU AREN'T A VEGAN, YOU NEED NOT APPLY. We are looking for someone who will help with the cooking, in addition to the rent.

If you are a vegan and want to live with two vegans who respect your personal space, please e-mail us. Include some information about yourself, including your source of income.

----------------------

From Me to ***********@***********.org:

Hey,

I saw your ad, and I can't tell you how happy I was to see that there are fellow vegans looking for a roommate. It is so hard to find someone to live with who respects my way of life. Are you guys still looking for someone to live with?

Mike

From Joanna ******** to Me:

Yes, we still are seeking a third housemate. Can you tell us about yourself?

From Me to Joanna ********:

Well, I am a 24 year old male, and I am currently make a living by being employed. It pays well. Now, as I said earlier, I am a hardcore vegan. I totally respect your lifestyle, but I will occasionally eat a veal burger, maybe two or three times a week. I hope that isn't a big deal. If it is, I can eat it outside, but I will still need to cook it in the kitchen. But besides that, I am easy to get along with. I love watching TV. I hope you guys like CSPAN and late night HBO as much as I do. I also love music, and think I will be a great addition to your apartment.

Mike

From Joanna ******** to Me:

You're not a vegan if you eat veal. Seriously, veal? That is perhaps the single worst thing a vegan can eat. Calves that are raised to become veal are ripped from their mothers at birth so they get anemia. Then they are starved of milk, food, and exercise. They often are put in crates so they cannot move at all; they just stand and suffer until their ultimate death. Veal goes against everything veganism stands for. How you even consider calling yourself a vegan astounds me.

From Me to Joanna ********:

Well thanks for the veal history lesson. My ex used to bitch to me about veal all the time, so I know all about it. Frankly, I think that is why I enjoy veal. Knowing that the calf suffered so much to make himself that much more tender and delicious for me makes it worth every bite. If I didn't eat veal, it would probably expire and be thrown away. Then, the calf would have died in vein. You wouldn't want that, would you. Seriously, veal isn't that bad. They give the calf a nice safe home to live in. Would you rather they just let the calf just be let loose out in the wild? Then, it would probably be killed by a lion or something. By supporting veal, you are supporting the safe life of cows everywhere.

Seeing as how you got all uppity about the veal, I guess I should tell you that I own two shotguns and an assault rifle for hunting and will need to store them in the apartment. I didn't think it would be a big deal, but I may as well tell you everything. Don't worry though, both the shotguns are registered and the assault rifle has the serial numbers filed off of it so it doesn't have to be registered.

From Joanna ******** to Me:

Don't worry, you don't need to tell me anything else because you aren't going to live with us. I highly doubt there is anything about your life that even makes you close to being a vegan. You're argument sounds like something a twelve-year-old would say. You're clearly just claiming to be vegan to live in a cheap apartment. If you really think you are vegan, think again. Vegans don't hunt, idiot.

From Me to Joanna ********:

C'mon, it isn't like I'm eating the animals after I kill them. I just kill them because I hate deer. I can't tell you how many times I've stepped in deer shit - they shit everywhere. They are worse than old people. One time my little brother ate some deer shit because he thought it was beans. We had to take him to the hospital to get him tested for Lyme disease. I'm just killing deer to make Pennsylvania a better, safer place for children. I'm not eating them, so relax. I still don't eat chicken or burgers or any of that shit. You are really picky about the vegans that you want to live with. So when is the lease for your place up? I'm looking for a place to live for about five or six months, and the sooner I can move in, the better.

From Joanna ******** to Me:

YOU'RE NOT A VEGAN!

From Joanna ******** to Me:

Not eating certain kinds of meat doesn't make you a vegan. Veganism is a lifestyle which prohibits using any kind of animal product, be it food, clothes, or anything else. Hunting is absolutely unacceptable and your reasons for hunting are ridiculous. You won't be living at my apartment so give it up.

From Me to Joanna ********:

Wow, I never thought I would find someone as pretentious as Bono, but you take the cake. Next time I bite into a savory beef brisket, I'll think of you.

personal_loans_1
10-04-2011, 12:56 PM
You are wrong. But I am glad your uncle's farm is so awesome.

I have to talk to some nutrionist. I'm glad too, except forced piercing cows are treated very well. I know enterprises like that are in the minority, but still the situation here is slightly different than like in 'Food Inc.'

ps. hahahahahahahah (at #37)

Little_Miss_1565
10-04-2011, 01:45 PM
And I hardly think a vegan lifestyle is very healthy (you really can't be very athletic on a vegan diet)...

This is 10000% incorrect. There are assloads of vegan bodybuilders out there.

RageAndLov
10-04-2011, 03:54 PM
This is 10000% incorrect. There are assloads of vegan bodybuilders out there.

But you will have to take vitamins or protein shakes in order to do so.

Llamas
10-04-2011, 05:29 PM
But you will have to take vitamins or protein shakes in order to do so.

Or steroids!! ;)

Little_Miss_1565
10-04-2011, 05:41 PM
But you will have to take vitamins or protein shakes in order to do so.

People who eat meat and aren't bodybuilders frequently have to take vitamins or protein shakes. What's your point?

We've also established that things like seitan are lower in calories at fat and denser in proteins than meat.

WebDudette
10-04-2011, 08:03 PM
But you will have to take vitamins or protein shakes in order to do so.

Because regular bodybuilders don't? A large majority of people who work out on a regular basis take vitamins and drink protein shakes. Hell, I've never worked out, take vitamins, and sometimes eat protein bars. I wouldn't call body builders particularly athletic, though a lot of world class UFC fighters are vegan and claim that veganism has made them perform even better.

Unfortunately, the vegan place is called Green. The first time I was there I had some sandwich and fries. I remember thinking to myself and then beginning to ask a friend 'what is the vegan substitute for french fries?' I felt very stupid.

JohnnyNemesis
10-04-2011, 08:43 PM
Vegans are healthy and very often diesel as fuck. I'm not sure where the idea that they're not came from?

WebDudette
10-04-2011, 09:14 PM
Seen Davey Havok recently? Dude is ripped.

RageAndLov
10-05-2011, 06:29 AM
People who eat meat and aren't bodybuilders frequently have to take vitamins or protein shakes. What's your point?

We've also established that things like seitan are lower in calories at fat and denser in proteins than meat.

My point is that vegans usually must, or at least ought to take some vitamins to stay healthy.

mario_spaghettio
10-05-2011, 06:54 AM
Captain Caveman diet 4lyfe

Little_Miss_1565
10-05-2011, 12:21 PM
My point is that vegans usually must, or at least ought to take some vitamins to stay healthy.

It's the same for meat eaters. So again, what is your point?



Vegans are healthy and very often diesel as fuck. I'm not sure where the idea that they're not came from?

*inserting "diesel as fuck" into vocabulary*


Seen Davey Havok recently? Dude is ripped.

omfg too sexy

RageAndLov
10-05-2011, 03:17 PM
It's the same for meat eaters. So again, what is your point?


Not as much as with vegans, because there are a lot of vitamins, proteins etc meat-, egg-, and milkproducteaters which the vegans are missing out.

WebDudette
10-05-2011, 04:33 PM
Like anyone else vegans can get plenty of protein if they eat right. It's not even that hard. Maybe they have to take a B12 vitamin, and we all know how hard taking vitamins is. If I had to guess though, I'd say most people don't get enough B12 without supplements.

Alison
10-06-2011, 05:49 AM
Most diets can work out perfect so long as you do it right. The same goes for those who eat meat.

I've rarely come across vegans, but any that I have seem perfectly healthy. I also have heard quite a bit about vegan bodybuilders; the whole "weak hippy" stereotype is a load of shite.

bighead384
10-10-2011, 09:59 AM
If someone is a vegetarian for ethical reasons, why aren't they straight up vegans? I mean, it's possible that a lot of vegetarians drink milk from cows that are treated humanely and only eat free range eggs or whatever. Some though, aren't eating meat, but are still drinking milk from poorly treated, tortured cows.
I see what you're saying, but I also think that people who are vegetarians choose not to become vegans because it's just not practical for them and is much more difficult. They see vegetarianism as an important step of progress rather than following a moral idea to it's logical extreme. And it's not just any step; it's a step that changes the status of animals to creatures that shouldn't be killed for our consumption.

A few times a year, I will consume something that contains ingredients that contain meat out of ignorance, or maybe I already paid for something and it's just got a tiny bit of sour cream that is made with meat products. I'll just say fuck it.

I would say I'm still making a choice that, if followed by the rest of society, would lead to the abolishment of humans consuming animals for food (I'm referring to my vegetarian diet here). If everyone followed the diet I follow, then things like sour cream made with animal products would obviously be abolished. Who cares if I end up consuming it 2-3 times a year?

On the topic of vegetarians trying to change other people's minds: I would say that when it involves life or death, or direct suffering, people are ALWAYS militant about their beliefs. It's true that people may hold views that they don't force on others, but when it involves life and death or direct suffering...well I can't think of a time when they don't act militant about their view.

WebDudette
10-10-2011, 10:12 AM
If they truly feel that way and are that militant, how can they justify not being vegan? It's bullshit to say it doesn't fit their lifestyle or it's too much effort. By not going the full measure, you're still encouraging and supporting the torture, death, and general poor treatment of animals. Besides, the step from omnivore to vegatarianism seems to be a lot more difficult than the step from vegetarianism to veganism.

Even the vegans I know, and I know a lot more vegans than vegetarians, do not try to force their eating habits on me, we rarely even talk about it. I had a carne asada burrito while hanging out with a table full of vegan kids just a couple weeks ago.

You edited your post while I was typing this up, but I think my point still stands.

bighead384
10-10-2011, 10:16 AM
If they truly feel that way and are that militant, how can they justify not being vegan? It's bullshit to say it doesn't fit their lifestyle or it's too much effort. By not going the full measure, you're still encouraging and supporting the torture, death, and general poor treatment of animals. Besides, the step from omnivore to vegatarianism seems to be a lot more difficult than the step from vegetarianism to veganism.

Why can't you just see it as a step of progress? Enormous progress at that. And also, the process through which we attain other animal products aren't inherently torturous. Like cage free eggs for example.

WebDudette
10-10-2011, 10:27 AM
I understand that's it is seen as progress, but how can people be so self-righteous and militant about it if they aren't even willing to put the little extra effort in to be vegan? I mentioned free range eggs and the like earlier, but that's definitely not what all 'ethical' vegetarians eat. If that were the case, I wouldn't bother bringing it up.

As for people being militant about life and death industries, I don't know you just have to recognize that you can't change everyone's opinion or that even if you can, militant action isn't the best way to do it. There are people who are strongly against blood diamonds, but they're not going to assault everyone with earrings. You can see the same thing a lot with cocaine and other drugs too.

edit: I want to clarify; if you're just taking a step towards improving the world a little on your own and/or meat just isn't your thing, I get that. I'm talking about the small percentage of militant vegetarians who will do anything to prevent animal cruelty, except cut dairy and eggs out of their diet.

Little_Miss_1565
10-10-2011, 07:11 PM
Forcing beliefs on anyone is a huge indication that you don't really have the courage of your convictions. Like all the kids you knew in high school who swore death before they'd break edge and gave you shit for drinking beer in the woods with your friends, and how they work in bars and love drinking? Yeah.

This really bothered me every single day I was a vegetarian. If you're screaming at people about saving the animals, you don't really care about the animals, you care about making yourself look good.

calichix
10-10-2011, 07:39 PM
I've noticed that vegans have really hot bods but they age a lot faster than everyone else seems to.

bighead384
10-10-2011, 09:48 PM
Forcing beliefs on anyone is a huge indication that you don't really have the courage of your convictions. Like all the kids you knew in high school who swore death before they'd break edge and gave you shit for drinking beer in the woods with your friends, and how they work in bars and love drinking? Yeah.

This really bothered me every single day I was a vegetarian. If you're screaming at people about saving the animals, you don't really care about the animals, you care about making yourself look good.

You're missing an important distinction though.

For example, what you're saying could apply to someone who tries to force their religion onto others, but vegetarianism has a different dynamic because it involves stopping a perceived injustice that is currently occurring. Also, this perceived injustice involves a life or death situation, so it is amplified even more. Obviously this creates a a sense of urgency that MUST be expected of a person who identifies the killing of animals for human consumption as an injustice.

Also, you say that vegetarians "force their beliefs" on others. I'm not sure how you would define this, but I personally wouldn't blame a vegetarian for discussing animal rights with others and making a non-obnoxious effort to convince them. Even if they go a bit out of their way to do so.

bighead384
10-12-2011, 10:02 PM
bump
ttftfyg

WebDudette
10-13-2011, 07:19 AM
It can definitely be a matter of life or death and a perceived injustice that is currently happening to religious people.

I'm not even sure what you're getting at anymore. How can they be the militant vegetarians you're talking about without forcing thier beliefs and being obnoxious? What you described is not merely discussing animal rights. Anyway, I'm not going to change my eating habits while surrounded and influenced by vegans. Why the fuck would I listen to someone who is so militant about their beliefs, but is still knowingly and willingly exploiting animals?

calichix
10-19-2011, 06:00 PM
bighead's sarah stalking is getting a littttllleuhh.... fucking terrifying.

mario_spaghettio
10-20-2011, 09:00 AM
If you're screaming at people about saving the animals, you don't really care about the animals, you care about making yourself look good.isn't that what liberalism is really all about?

Little_Miss_1565
10-20-2011, 04:19 PM
isn't that what liberalism is really all about?

Isn't that what trolling is really all about?

Apathy
10-21-2011, 10:31 AM
Besides, the step from omnivore to vegatarianism seems to be a lot more difficult than the step from vegetarianism to veganism.



I have to disagree here. There are vegetarian options everywhere, and it's relatively easy to adhere to even without checking ingredient labels etc. Veganism? I feel like I couldn't eat anything without looking it up first. Plus a lot of easy options for proteins outside of meat products also become off-limits.

Furthermore I completely agree with bighead on this topic...vegetarians with an eye for morals shouldn't be shit on just because they aren't going 100%, because in practice they're still doing much more than everyone else. It's like if you set out to write a novel, and wanted it to be 300 pages long. But you found that too difficult, so published a novella at 100 pages instead. Introspectively, you might be a little disappointed in yourself, but no one else should be able to say shit. You still accomplished something. Better than nothing.

Edit: Although I don't agree with the so-called "forcing of beliefs". I understand supporting a cause, and advocating for it. Even trying to recruit people to that cause seems like it has noble intentions. The danger is that you can't really "force beliefs", because everyone who doesn't agree will immediately feel threatened. This is where advocating turns into arguing...which isn't helpful for anyone, and tends to make all parties look like cavemen.

WebDudette
10-22-2011, 01:39 AM
I'm not shitting on vegetarians in general, I stated earlier in this thread that I have no problem with people who just genuinely don't like meat or are just trying to do their little bit to help the environment. I was under the impression that bighead and I were talking about fanatics. As a side note, I'd say vegans get shit on most of all. Every time it comes up vegetarians and omnivores alike talk about how weird and unnecessary vegans are.

I just meant that it seems like a much bigger step to go from omnivore to vegetarian than it is to go from vegetarian to veganism, you'll be dropping a lot more options in the former and I feel like once you have the snowball rolling it'd be easier to adapt and have the self-control for veganism. I hadn't taken the difficulty of finding vegan food into account. That said, most vegans I know have told me it's pretty easy once you set your mind to it, and Phoenix isn't exactly a mecca for vegan food. I guess I can see how doing a little research and reading a box every now and then is just too much work.

That's a pretty shitty analogy, but I'm going to try and run with it and adapt it to my point of view. The way I see it, you have a guy who gives people shit for not being an author, even though these people have no intention of being authors. He talks about the 300 pages book he is going to write and how people who aren't writing a 300 page book need to change the way they live. Then he goes on to write a 100 page novella, but still talks shit. On top of that he sold a bunch of preorders and let people believe they were getting a 300 page book, exploiting his readers. Then you have people who wrote the 300 page book they promised, never talked shit about it, and gave their readers what they promised.

Both parties don't look like cavemen, just the one who is trying to force his belief on the other, whether that person is an omnivore, vegetarian, or vegan.

TL;DR: I don't care if your a vegetarian, eat what ever you want. But if you're going to be militant, self-righteous, and obnoxious about it, at least have the self-control to not continue using animals.

For the record, I don't like vegans who do that shit either.

XYlophonetreeZ
10-22-2011, 01:58 AM
I've noticed that vegans have really hot bods but they age a lot faster than everyone else seems to.
This is an interesting observation, and I wonder if it's because of the diet, or just because our brain sees people's appearances as either positive or negative rather than "fat," "skinny," "old," or "young." In other words, if someone's already out of shape before they age then we don't notice the deterioration in their appearance as much.

bighead384
10-22-2011, 11:46 AM
I'm not clear on the distinction between a vegetarian trying to discuss or debate animal rights issues and a vegetarian trying to force their beliefs on others. Once this distinction is made, I think the next question is:

What level of activism is appropriate for people with moral beliefs that A)They believe should be universally accepted B)Involve stopping living creatures from being killed (anti-abortion, anti-war, vegetarian)?

Little_Miss_1565
10-22-2011, 01:22 PM
This is an interesting observation, and I wonder if it's because of the diet, or just because our brain sees people's appearances as either positive or negative rather than "fat," "skinny," "old," or "young." In other words, if someone's already out of shape before they age then we don't notice the deterioration in their appearance as much.

I think it's because of the relative lack of fat in the diet. Fat is the stuff of youth. It fills out wrinkles and makes you look younger. When you get, as JN puts it, diesel as fuck, then the wrinkles show more.

calichix
10-22-2011, 09:04 PM
yeah, and b vitamins are important for your skin.. and a lot of vegans don't get em. I've seen it at least 20 times.. it'll be like, they have a fine ass body with literally the face of one of those wrinkle dogs.

Offspring-Junkie
10-23-2011, 02:37 AM
TL;DR: I don't care if your a vegetarian, eat what ever you want. But if you're going to be militant, self-righteous, and obnoxious about it, at least have the self-control to not continue using animals.

For the record, I don't like vegans who do that shit either.

We should fix this in this BBS. If you write a long post, you should include a tl,dr paragraph for those, who are lazy, like me. Just a little sum up of your content.

Did you read this static_martyr?

wheelchairman
10-23-2011, 02:59 PM
Health experts (of any diet) are like economists and meteorologists, notoriously unreliable, and so full of hate they would probably stab you on the street if you met them.

As far as dating material goes they rank just above politicians and spin doctors, but right below lawyers and people who claim to be creative.

mario_spaghettio
10-23-2011, 08:59 PM
yeah, and b vitamins are important for your skin.. and a lot of vegans don't get em. I've seen it at least 20 times.. it'll be like, they have a fine ass body with literally the face of one of those wrinkle dogs.Word, most of the vegan broads I've dealt with look like that got slapped with a bag of nickels