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bighead384
10-27-2011, 10:29 PM
Who has tried heroin?

bighead384
11-01-2011, 09:15 AM
A journal called the Lancet published this interesting study:http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(07)60464-4/fulltext

Pleasure scale:
Drug Pleasure
Heroin 3.0
Cocaine 3.0
Alcohol 2.3
Tobacco 2.3
Barbiturates 2.0
Benzodiazepines 1.7
Methamphetamine 1.67
LSD 2.2
Ecstasy 1.5

Physical harm and dependence:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_%28mean _physical_harm_and_mean_dependence%29.svg

T-6005
11-01-2011, 10:14 AM
Don't make the mistake of equating dependence with pleasure. Addiction isn't entirely mental, there can be a fairly strong physical dependence to it as well. Which would explain why Tobacco is so far up the list - I strongly doubt it's more 'pleasurable' than either alcohol or cannabis.

Jakebert
11-01-2011, 03:18 PM
I've never done heroin, but I've done Oxycontin, which I've been told is similar to heroin but not nearly as strong. No idea if that's true or not.

Oxy is incredible and I get why people get hooked. Luckily for me, I only did it 3-4 times with leftovers from getting my wisdom teeth out and never did it again. But it feels like a giant warm hug and you laugh at everything.

bighead384
11-01-2011, 10:22 PM
I've never done heroin, but I've done Oxycontin, which I've been told is similar to heroin but not nearly as strong. No idea if that's true or not.

Oxy is incredible and I get why people get hooked. Luckily for me, I only did it 3-4 times with leftovers from getting my wisdom teeth out and never did it again. But it feels like a giant warm hug and you laugh at everything.

Yeah, I got addicted to OxyContin and Perks. God damn, it's amazing how good the feeling is. I like your "giant warm hug" description.

You know that extremely brief feeling (like a second or two at the most) of euphoria you experience when you let out a real good yawn in the morning? That to me is what OxyContin feels like. For about 3-4 hours. I've read that yawning releases dopamine, so it makes sense.

It just amazes me that human beings have access to the thing that makes us feel the best. But yet, we can't have it. Well, we can, but we shouldn't. We spend so much time looking for things that will make us feel good. And there's just this amazing short term paradise waiting there at any time. Ugh.

WebDudette
11-02-2011, 12:41 AM
Drug Pleasure
Heroin 3.0
Cocaine 3.0
Alcohol 2.3
Tobacco 2.3
Barbiturates 2.0
Benzodiazepines 1.7
Methamphetamine 1.67
LSD 2.2
Ecstasy 1.5



Is that pleasure or addiction? I have done cocaine a few times and it wasn't that great. I did ecstasy once and it was pretty awesome, I'd like to do it again. I've never done LSD, but if it's half as awesome and shrooms is should definitely top cocaine and alcohol. Obviously, these are just my experiences.

I'd probably do heroin if it were offered too me. I am not an addictive person at all, I think I am too apathetic and lazy to get addicted to drugs.

PAC90
11-02-2011, 05:49 AM
Cocaine isn't really believed to cause mental addiction so I guess that's for pleasure

TheUnholyNightbringer
11-02-2011, 06:02 AM
Duuuuurgz

That's pretty much all I can add to a drug discussion.

To recap: duuuuuurgz

My Name Was Taken
11-02-2011, 07:18 AM
I've never done heroin, but I've done Oxycontin.

Didn't notice a thing.

Marijuana: same
LSD: same
Adderall is on my allergy list because it makes me pick at my arms like a meth addict, but that's all. It didn't even effectively treat my ADHD.

bighead384
11-02-2011, 08:05 AM
I'd probably do heroin if it were offered too me. I am not an addictive person at all, I think I am too apathetic and lazy to get addicted to drugs.
Yeah, apathy can prevent you from getting to that point. It's got a lot to do with access. Not having easy access will prevent you from getting into "the danger zone" of addiction. But once you're there, "apathy" (or any other personality trait) essentially goes right the fuck out the window. We are talking about basically the best feeling ever here, bro.

I've never done coke, but my impression is that you kind of have to have the right circumstances/amount of coke/experience to truly enjoy it. Whereas if you had tried any kind of opiates, I think you'd have a little more perspective on this.

I remember reading about opiate addiction in places like Afghanistan. I remember a guy saying how his son split open his finger and all he could do was give him opiates. "We have no doctors. Opiates are our only doctor". Wow.

calichix
11-02-2011, 11:42 AM
I've taken opium in a few forms and I loved it in a weird "drug, you are my soulmate" way. I feel like if I had let myself do it even a few more times when I was younger I would be a no-tooth, sexy voiced, stank breath homeless lady by now. and when I think about it now it's as if opium rode off into the night and out of my life on a motorcycle with a leather jacket on.

Omni
11-02-2011, 12:03 PM
I've never done heroin, but I've done Oxycontin, which I've been told is similar to heroin but not nearly as strong. No idea if that's true or not.

Oxy is incredible and I get why people get hooked. Luckily for me, I only did it 3-4 times with leftovers from getting my wisdom teeth out and never did it again. But it feels like a giant warm hug and you laugh at everything.

I had some sort of Oxycodone prescription when I got out of the hospital after my surgery when I was 17. I took only a few. They killed the pain well enough, but they knocked me out and then gave me incredible nightmares, and I would wake up frantic not knowing where I was. I'm sure that's not what most people experience, but it was a terrible, terrible drug.


Morphine was way better. Made me drowsy, killed the pain. No side-effects that I could remember. But I had that in my IV (is that basically like drugs on tap?) and that was over with after a week or so.

Offspring-Junkie
11-02-2011, 12:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_0d01XbXg0&ob=av2e
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfP5g-ni2Gg

I already hate weed, I don't want to think of anything else. No experience on shit of any kind, but I already heard a lot of stories. Not fake ones, like in this forum, because some of this posts are.

Don't do drugs kids, don't do drugs. You already know why.

WebDudette
11-02-2011, 04:47 PM
I've never done coke, but my impression is that you kind of have to have the right circumstances/amount of coke/experience to truly enjoy it. Whereas if you had tried any kind of opiates, I think you'd have a little more perspective on this.


I've done a bunch of opiates, I've just never done heroin. I definitely like opiates a lot more than cocaine and alcohol, but I still prefer mushrooms and ecstasy. I always have had and still do have easy access to all different brands and doses of oxycodone, morphine, and vicodin, I just never really have a strong desire to do it. Basically, someone has to put them in my hand before I am motivated enough to take it.

That said, I understand that there are people who could get addicted to it with the same amount of exposure I've had, or even much less. My best friend has to be very careful with opiates, alcohol, cocaine, and stuff like that because his family has a long history of dependency and he has an addictive personality. I also realize that I have the potential to get addicted to it at any time, I'm just a lot less likely than others.

I'd really like to get the whole native american opium experience, I wonder how hard it is to get in on something like that as a white guy.

Fun fact: prescription opiates kill significantly more people than heroin and cocaine combined. (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm60e1101a1.htm)

randman21
11-02-2011, 05:27 PM
I think if that chart were addictiveness instead of pleasure, I would expect crystal meth to be in first or second place. I've heard it said that it and heroin are the two that are all but impossible to quit long-term. Benzos would have to be higher, too.

But what do I know? The only thing I've ever done is alcohol. I generally have zero desire to try anything, but if someone handed me a couple 'shrooms or some DMT, I'd try it without hesitation.

calichix
11-02-2011, 07:34 PM
not hard at all, in new mexico it's almost a tourist trap. but I've heard sometimes it's a drag because they incorporate weird christian shit into the ceremonies. and christian stuff is fine, but when you're on peyote... it's not fine. usually it's peyote or ayahuasca at the native american thangs, not opium. cactus derivatives are incredible because you have this amazing body intelligence- like you can think "I want to do a backflip." and do it, perfectly. but they make you puke.

Jakebert
11-02-2011, 09:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_0d01XbXg0&ob=av2e
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfP5g-ni2Gg

I already hate weed, I don't want to think of anything else. No experience on shit of any kind, but I already heard a lot of stories. Not fake ones, like in this forum, because some of this posts are.

Don't do drugs kids, don't do drugs. You already know why.

Why do you hate weed? I'm not trying to start an argument or be confrontational, but I've recently been having discussions with people who are very anti-weed and have gotten curious as to why.

T-6005
11-02-2011, 10:12 PM
It's like nobody reads these posts. That chart is NOT pleasure. Perhaps if you'd read it, you might have noticed.

WebDudette
11-03-2011, 12:25 AM
Why do you hate weed? I'm not trying to start an argument or be confrontational, but I've recently been having discussions with people who are very anti-weed and have gotten curious as to why.

I don't particularly get weed obsessed people, but I really, really don't get the haters.


not hard at all, in new mexico it's almost a tourist trap. but I've heard sometimes it's a drag because they incorporate weird christian shit into the ceremonies. and christian stuff is fine, but when you're on peyote... it's not fine. usually it's peyote or ayahuasca at the native american thangs, not opium. cactus derivatives are incredible because you have this amazing body intelligence- like you can think "I want to do a backflip." and do it, perfectly. but they make you puke.

This is probably the 5th or 6th time I have been corrected on the peyote thing. Every time it happens I realize that I definitely know it's peyote and that I've definitely been corrected on it before but still manage to do it. This time I'me going to make a really conscious effort to remember that it is peyote. Funny thing, that is what I had to do to finally spell 'definitely' right.

Anyway, I live in Arizona, maybe it's a thing here too. I'll check into that sometime.

Llamas
11-03-2011, 06:16 AM
I'm not a big fan of getting high, and potheads are super annoying... but I don't get hating weed, either. I feel like alcohol is easier to hate because bad stuff actually happens when people are on it, plus drinkers love to pressure non-drinkers way more than smokers pressure non-smokers. Never met anyone who acted like someone is lame and a loser because they didn't smoke; have seen that a lot with drinking, though.

Offspring-Junkie
11-03-2011, 02:05 PM
Why do you hate weed? I'm not trying to start an argument or be confrontational, but I've recently been having discussions with people who are very anti-weed and have gotten curious as to why.

Almost everyone I know drinks alcohol. I only know about one guy who got addicted in a very bad way to it. But potheads, well, not everyone but at least half of them stick with it. Weed didn't turn them into criminals, but their conditions worsened badly. They smoke when they wake up, during the day and before they go to sleep. It's such a waste. Especially when you see very lively young people turn numb, it makes you think.

Jakebert
11-03-2011, 07:26 PM
I've known way more people in my life with crippling alcohol addictions that people with crippling weed addictions. There's a lot of science to support the idea that alcohol is much more addictive than marijuana.

Oh yeah btw I'm Mark_Bryan420.

RageAndLov
11-04-2011, 10:11 AM
I never do anything. I just drink alcohol.

PAC90
11-06-2011, 03:53 PM
I've known way more people in my life with crippling alcohol addictions that people with crippling weed addictions. There's a lot of science to support the idea that alcohol is much more addictive than marijuana.

Oh yeah btw I'm Mark_Bryan420.

Alcohol addiction has a major problem in that it's one of the few addictions that can kill you from withdrawal, unlike many other drugs. I've never thought weed was addicting but I rarely smoke it though

mrconeman
11-06-2011, 06:46 PM
Those little tallies of pleasure and addiction are obviously sheer bullshit. Like pretty much everything else any form of media supplier writes about drugs and backs up with pseudo science.

I'm actually pretty tame on the drug scale, I tipple some alcohol pretty frequently, I smoke joints pretty regularly, and I've tried salvia on 3 different occasions.

I mean, on a different night it depends on what you want. Some nights the thought of smoking a joint will make me cringe, some nights I'm not in the mood for drinking, and if I go ahead and partake in either, it's not going to be anywhere near as pleasurable as if I had started out wanting to do so.

of the three, I like alcohol the most - when you hit that happy medium of really drunk, but not ill, un-inhibited but not obnoxious/a moron, it's a grand state to be in.

I know some folks who when they get stoned, they get really fucking stoned, like it's just constant, and harsh. I prefer to smoke a few well timed joints during the day and just keep a mellow feeling going. Not that I'm anything less than mellow when I'm not stoned, I'm reputed to be the calmest/most chill person that anyone knows - to people that know me, without being stoned. It's just nice.

Salvia was a fun time, very short though quite intense hit. I just zoned out, and because at the time I had been staring at a light, it felt like the light had warped and engulfed me, then I came too, surely less than 30 seconds later, uncontrollably laughing, leaning on my friends shoulder.

I'd like to try mushrooms and acid.

bighead384
11-06-2011, 09:42 PM
Those little tallies of pleasure and addiction are obviously sheer bullshit. Like pretty much everything else any form of media supplier writes about drugs and backs up with pseudo science.

I haven't been able to find the explanation behind the study I posted. But if it were based on the average amount of dopamine released, then I would say that it makes sense. There is a subjective part to it (for example, having a "bad trip" on acid), but I don't see why they can't measure it to some extent.

Oh yeah, here's where I found this chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin

T-6005
11-06-2011, 09:57 PM
You all have to be kidding at this point. There's no way you can't see that one axis says "dependence" and the other says "physical harm" and that neither of them say "pleasure" at all.

If you're just actively taking "dependence" to mean pleasure then you're beyond help.

mrconeman
11-07-2011, 02:36 AM
Thi...



Pleasure scale:
Drug Pleasure


It was the numbers beside the names, NOT the graph, to which I, and probably everyone else who's mentioned pleasure, was referring to.