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bighead384
11-15-2011, 07:58 AM
Well, more specifically, the ideas and people associated with indie rock are annoying.

I don't like the common perception out there that indie rock is somehow more talented or special than most rock music. From a songwriting perspective, this music follows the same formula as most rock music, except that the beats/riffs/vocals are just a touch on the quirky side. I don't know what someone who listens to Pavement or Cap n' Jazz could possibly hear in that music to get all high and mighty about. What's so special about a typical rock song with a dash of quirkyness?

Indie rock snobs are the most annoying snobs out there to me. A punk rock elitist might act superior, but will understand that punk rock, from a musical perspective, doesn't have as much depth as many other kinds of music. Indie snobs are unique in that they don't seem to understand this. They often think indie rock is so revolutionary and hard to write.

Oh yeah, and I hate how people who used to be into punk rock "graduate" to indie rock. Yeah like it's so much better. Maybe indie rock has a little more depth than stuff like Green Day, but indie rock usually doesn't have anymore depth than a punk rock band with some technical ability or a melodic hardcore band.

Pavement is overrated.

Jakebert
11-15-2011, 08:18 AM
The problem with your argument and arguments like it is that indie rock is such an umbrella term that making broad generalizations like the one you're making don't make sense. Pavement and Godspeed You Black Emperor are both considered indie bands. They sound absolutely nothing alike in any way. And neither of them sound anything like Destroyer, who are also considered an indie rock band. So making these broad generalizations that indie takes no more talent than punk or whatever doesn't really make sense. If you want to say that Pavement are no better than a punk band, well that's one thing because you'd be making a coherent argument.

Secondly, I've never ever met a punk that admitted that punk rock is easy or lower class than other genres. Most punks would probably tell you that punk is inherently better and more amazing music because it's simple, and that other musicians who put more than 3 chords into their music are just assholes who don't know what rock n roll is, man.

Thirdly, the reason most people who listen to indie "graduate" from punk is because of the similarities you mention. Indie bands generally have similar ideologies and outlooks as punk bands, but express it in a way that's a little more mature than "FUCK AUTHORITY!!!" I'm not saying all indie bands are inherently more mature, but I'd certainly argue that a band expressing cynicism through lyrics other than "I'M NOT A TRENDY ASSHOLE!!" type stuff is more mature than most punk bands.

Lastly, and most importantly, indie and punk are not mutually exclusive, and by pitting them against each other, you're doing what you're complaining about others doing. For example, I am listening to Sicko right now, a mid-90s pop punk band. After I'm done listening to this, I may listen to some Animal Collective. I can like both genres without my head exploding or the universe folding into itself to create a black hole that engulfs us all.

Retard
11-15-2011, 11:53 AM
I don't know a lot about "indie" besides coincidentally liking Cap'n Jazz a lot. I had always thought that they had a good balance between punk and emo and I think it's fun. I've never seen a snooty indie kid make fun of punk, cuz they're usually still into it a good amount. Are they gonna dress like a punk anymore? Probably not, and it might not be their favorite style still but I've never seen any straight out say you punks are assholes, indie is the way to go. I've seen metal heads say that before, not indie kids.

Jakebert
11-15-2011, 01:34 PM
I know a few indie snobs who really hate punk rock, but as a whole I find people that listen to indie to be pretty open to any genre of music as long as it's not like mainstream pop stuff. I mean, look at how big The Thermals, Fucked Up, No Age, Ted Leo, and quite a few other punk bands are with hipsters right now. I'd argue that most of these bands would have indie kids as their primary fanbase and the whole reason they have any real attention at all.

Again, I'm not saying indie kids or hipsters or whatever can't be closed minded because lots of them certainly are, and it's one of the reasons why I'm hesitant to get into conversations about music with people because most people assume I'm going to be that way based on my music tastes. But I'd really say that as w hole punks and metalheads are way more exclusive and elitist about their music taste than indie kids.

WebDudette
11-15-2011, 01:47 PM
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/SystemSloth/Stop-liking-what-I-dont-like.png

Retard
11-15-2011, 04:05 PM
I can agree with the punk kids having an elitist kinda mentality. I had a phase for about a 3 years where if it wasn't punk rock I didn't give a shit about it. I sold most of my beatles albums, and all the gorillaz albums that I had had, and I've had to rebuy all of them. It's still my favorite type of music, but I love almost everything else just under it.

Little_Miss_1565
11-15-2011, 05:25 PM
This sounds more like a problem with particular people and not with the genre itself.

Outerspaceman21
11-15-2011, 06:20 PM
I agree with you that people who listen to indie rock tend to have more an elitist and snobbish attitude over the type of music they listen to. I listen to some indie rock, but it's nothing special to me. I learned from my high school experience (or looking back on my experience I should say) that everyone is different and to feel like an elitist because you believe the type of music that you listen to is superior to everyone else is immature.

bighead384
11-15-2011, 09:09 PM
The problem with your argument and arguments like it is that indie rock is such an umbrella term that making broad generalizations like the one you're making don't make sense.
Fair enough. I originally wrote something similar to this on FB and I actually emphasized that I feel this way about most indie rock. In fact, the first sentence of the aforementioned rant acknowledged that some indie is very technical. Forgot to do that here. Oops.


Secondly, I've never ever met a punk that admitted that punk rock is easy or lower class than other genres. Most punks would probably tell you that punk is inherently better and more amazing music because it's simple, and that other musicians who put more than 3 chords into their music are just assholes who don't know what rock n roll is, man.
Yeah, I just plain disagree with you here, based on personal experience, and perhaps the lyrics to songs like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-mkj9QMWk8) (Stranger than Fishin'-NOFX) or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqPNpZzE9xc) (Drugs Are Good-NOFX).I think I've heard punks say things similar to what you've stated, but that's not even close to the majority in my experience.

coke_a_holic
11-16-2011, 10:11 AM
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/SystemSloth/Stop-liking-what-I-dont-like.png

This is incredible. Also, indie is not a genre. People have already said it, but it bears repeating. And punks smell bad.

bighead384
11-16-2011, 12:20 PM
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/SystemSloth/Stop-liking-what-I-dont-like.png
Wait...did you custom make this for me?



This is incredible. Also, indie is not a genre. People have already said it, but it bears repeating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_rock

Well, according to Wikipedia, indie rock is a genre, however:
Indie rock is extremely diverse, with sub-genres that include lo-fi, post-rock, math rock, indie pop, dream pop, noise rock, space rock, sadcore, riot grrrl and emo, among others.

jacknife737
11-16-2011, 01:39 PM
I'm definitely in the "indie is not a real genre" crowd. Ask anyone to describe it and most of the time the answer is "i can't, i just know it when i hear it".

Admittedly i can't help but get annoyed at a certain kind of "indie fan", such as the stereotypical hipster. I can't really rationalize that dislike either... it's just there. And the aesthetic of some of the bands in the "scene" also irk me as well (see Arcade Fire), but then again, one of my favorite bands dress up in matching plaid suits so i'm in no real position to judge.

Overall, it's always silly to hate a whole scene/genre/whatever type of music just because a couple small random things seem to annoy you.

mrconeman
11-16-2011, 05:30 PM
Indie rock definitely means a different thing here in Ireland, and in the U.K.
As far as I can tell anyway, Indie Rock in America/this thread means all music that has ever been recorded in the history of time.

Indie rock here generally means absolute middle of the road medicore radio friendly, lifeless, bollocks like Coldplay, Snowpatrol, Kasabian, Arcade Fire, The Libertines, The Killers, The Arctic Monkeys, and the other 300 bands that came out of the U.K* in the last 10 years that all sounded exactly the fucking same. etc etc.

The only band I think I can stand that gets labelled as Indie here, is The Strokes

*I know the Killers aren't from the U.K. However much they want to be.

Jakebert
11-16-2011, 06:52 PM
Yeah the only band on that list that's considered an indie band in the U.S. is the Arcade Fire.

Retard
11-16-2011, 08:48 PM
And they're from Canada! The Suburbs was a pretty fun record though.

yarock
11-20-2011, 03:41 PM
"Indie" is annoying I agree. It's being used like Alternative or Electronica.

Now electronic music is not so my level but, as speaking for Indie and Alternative - as you listen more bands being labeled as indie it all just gets ridiculous for you. Kasabian and Arcade Fire maybe can be considered as indie in 2004. What's so alternative about Coldplay as they're the most popular band in the mainstream media? Radiohead is little different though but still can't be considered as an alternative band from my point of view.

BRITPOP FTW!!!!!'''!1'!

Retard
11-20-2011, 03:54 PM
I think with Coldplay and Radiohead it's one of those where they're huge now, but they started with kind of indie beginnings. Coldplay gets played on the alternative station in Boston, and some of the other more mainstream stations in the area. Coldplay started out on a tiny little indie label and they rightfully so became this huge band who right really strange amazing pop songs. My mother is a huge Coldplay fan, I know for a fact that the last two albums that they've put out would have been over looked borderline ignored all together albums if it weren't for the fact that they were Coldplay, not because they're bad albums, but because the overall sounds of both albums are no where near mainstream sounding albums, but since coldplay got huge with X&Y, people will listen to the new ones and realize that hey these are actually pretty good. Radiohead is technically more indie than a lot of "indie" bands now a days. They distribute their albums themselves, they do whatever the fuck they want(which hurts and helps the band). I personally didn't see what the big fuss was about King Of Limbs. The first half of the CD can almost be considered one complete song since it almost all sounds the same. The other half is kinda just there.
I've always thought that indie was kinda like the cousin of punk. There's hundreds of different sub genres, and people can and will argue for hours on what is and isn't said genre. But in the long run it's all part of this big umbrella of a genre.

bighead384
11-20-2011, 09:40 PM
Indie bands generally have similar ideologies and outlooks as punk bands, but express it in a way that's a little more mature than "FUCK AUTHORITY!!!" I'm not saying all indie bands are inherently more mature, but I'd certainly argue that a band expressing cynicism through lyrics other than "I'M NOT A TRENDY ASSHOLE!!" type stuff is more mature than most punk bands.

I would say most indie definitely appears more mature than most punk. But if you take away street punk, indie and punk rock are pretty close in maturity.

Indie definitely has a more mature presentation, but I'd say most of the time, it's superficial.

Also, the immaturity of some punk is about as annoying as the pretentiousness of indie.

Little_Miss_1565
11-20-2011, 10:18 PM
In all seriousness, who the fuck are these "most people" you're always talking about?

bighead384
11-20-2011, 10:24 PM
In all seriousness, who the fuck are these "most people" you're always talking about?

I'm drunk now. When I posted that I wasn't. But it didn't make sense. Like, I had an idea of what to write, and started the sentence. But then I changed, my mind, and wanted to write something else. But I didn't delete the part of the sentence that I started before I changed my mind. So it didn't make sense.

Uh, yeah.

Llamas
11-21-2011, 08:45 AM
Coldplay, Snowpatrol, Kasabian, Arcade Fire, The Libertines, The Killers, The Arctic Monkeys


Yeah the only band on that list that's considered an indie band in the U.S. is the Arcade Fire.

I've heard numerous people refer to Arcade Fire, Libertines, Killers, and Arctic Monkeys as Indie in the US... Killers is the worst crime of them all.

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with everyone who's arguing that indie rock is wayyyyyy too broad of a "genre" (though I still hesitate to even label it as such) to hate the whole thing. Sure, when you get into like, progressive industrial metal, that's specific enough to completely rule out. Indie rock is even too vague for most people to ever even remotely agree on which bands and singers even fit into the group. At any rate, I like quite a bit of stuff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keKdyN16qUs) which is often (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZA_7FtttRY&ob=av2e) labeled as indie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GupdrkZMYpA) rock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33jfKsSfkho).

holland25
11-21-2011, 09:06 AM
Indie rock is extremely diverse, with sub-genres that include lo-fi, post-rock, math rock, indie pop, dream pop, noise rock, space rock, sadcore, riot grrrl and emo, among others.

Hold on a second, riot grrrl and emo are classified as indie rock? I always thought riot grrrl is a mixture of punk and grunge and emo is something like post-punk...

Anyway, I can't say I hate indie, but most of the 'indie' stuff I've heard is pretty repetitive and boring. Some are even more repetitive than Nickelback, and that's quite an accompishment.

Coral
11-21-2011, 11:43 AM
There are two Emos. One pop punk emo and 2nd like At The Drive In or something...

And yeah, Indian music is annoying. :D But seriously, I don't like Indie on its own, but I love when my favourite bands mix it in a bit in their music. So it's good it exists.

bighead384
11-21-2011, 01:16 PM
There are two Emos. One pop punk emo and 2nd like At The Drive In or something...
At The Drive In is primarily post-hardcore. Not sure if I would consider emo a significant part of their sound. The pop punk of the mid 2000s was associated with "scene kids", which were associated with emo in many people's minds. Some of that pop punk-ish music from that time period was emo influenced, but a lot of it was wrongly considered emo. Emo is generally understood to have has three different waves. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.


And yeah, Indian music is annoying. :D But seriously, I don't like Indie on its own, but I love when my favourite bands mix it in a bit in their music. So it's good it exists.

lol nice.

Retard
11-21-2011, 02:06 PM
I fucking love indian music. Sitars are amazing.
All three of those "indie" links that llamas put up are great songs! Emo is amazing, the shit that people thought was emo in the early 00's was not emo, it was pop music.
Braid, Cap'n Jazz, Promise Ring, Pg.99, Orchid, Brand New. That's all some pretty awesome emo shit.

Retard
11-21-2011, 02:12 PM
I fucking love indian music. Sitars are amazing.
All three of those "indie" links that llamas put up are great songs! Emo is amazing, the shit that people thought was emo in the early 00's was not emo, it was pop music.
Braid, Cap'n Jazz, Promise Ring, Pg.99, Orchid, Brand New, Jimmy Eat World, Sense Field, Rites Of Spring, Sunny Day Real Estate, Jawbreaker(which pretty much is. A little bit of Pop-Punk thrown in for good measure), Jets To Brazil, Saves The Day. That's all some pretty awesome emo right there.

Jakebert
11-21-2011, 02:25 PM
Well the biggest issue with this, as seen with the riot grrl/emo stuff is that punk and most subgenres of punk are usually considered indie, and were in the late 80s/early 90s before pop punk got big on the radio.

Retard
11-21-2011, 06:52 PM
In the long run it's all fucking music. Who the fuck cares? but yea, all that shit is true. I was just naming emo bands cuz I realized long ago that I'm kinda an emo kid.

Scythe Death
11-22-2011, 05:54 PM
I think that kids that just subscribe to a scene and pretend like their genre is the quintessential object of human expression should all be reeducated.

I get what Bighead means by the "indie" mentality, but I wanted to address just how bad this is with post-rock fans in specific. I cringe every time I see some moron think that a talentless, compositionally impaired, fucking obvious, try-hard band is somehow deep. It's like these people lack the perception to discern artistry in the more developed genres and have reverted into analyzing the simplest, most basic of music possibly conceivable, and feel like they've hit a gold mine. Suddenly, they're musically uneducated connoisseurs.

Of course, not all post-rock is bad, and there are some great post-rock bands. It's just that idiots usually refer to the bad ones, when trying to counter a good song with something that sounds like it was written by a melodramatic geek with the literacy of a 12-year-old.

RageAndLov
11-23-2011, 07:45 AM
Iiiiii love you jeeeesus chriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis t jeeeeesus christ iiiiii loooove you yeeeeees i doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

bighead384
11-23-2011, 09:10 AM
I think that kids that just subscribe to a scene and pretend like their genre is the quintessential object of human expression should all be reeducated.

I get what Bighead means by the "indie" mentality, but I wanted to address just how bad this is with post-rock fans in specific. I cringe every time I see some moron think that a talentless, compositionally impaired, fucking obvious, try-hard band is somehow deep. It's like these people lack the perception to discern artistry in the more developed genres and have reverted into analyzing the simplest, most basic of music possibly conceivable, and feel like they've hit a gold mine. Suddenly, they're musically uneducated connoisseurs.

Of course, not all post-rock is bad, and there are some great post-rock bands. It's just that idiots usually refer to the bad ones, when trying to counter a good song with something that sounds like it was written by a melodramatic geek with the literacy of a 12-year-old.
I love you man.

Retard
11-23-2011, 01:13 PM
I think that kids that just subscribe to a scene and pretend like their genre is the quintessential object of human expression should all be reeducated.

I get what Bighead means by the "indie" mentality, but I wanted to address just how bad this is with post-rock fans in specific. I cringe every time I see some moron think that a talentless, compositionally impaired, fucking obvious, try-hard band is somehow deep. It's like these people lack the perception to discern artistry in the more developed genres and have reverted into analyzing the simplest, most basic of music possibly conceivable, and feel like they've hit a gold mine. Suddenly, they're musically uneducated connoisseurs.

Of course, not all post-rock is bad, and there are some great post-rock bands. It's just that idiots usually refer to the bad ones, when trying to counter a good song with something that sounds like it was written by a melodramatic geek with the literacy of a 12-year-old.

But who the fuck are you to say that it doesn't speak to them like it's the greatest fucking type of music around? If they listen to all those supposed bands that are horrible(which you didn't name any) they are connoisseurs. You sound just as idiotic and moronic when you insult someone who thinks that they listen to the greatest kind of music around. If the people who look down on you for not liking the music they listen to then maybe you got a point. But just because they think a band is deep and speaks to them doesn't mean they're assholes.