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Degstur Lolland
03-30-2012, 10:44 AM
I'm doing this because it's difficult to decide in my opinion. These albums are so different.

Splinter:
+ cohesive
+ sold about the same number of albums
- short
- people don't like its joke or odd songs: Neocon, The Worst Hangover Ever and When You're In Prison
+/- consistent, but doesn't have several really strong songs

RFRG:
+ diverse
+ sold about the same number of albums
- annoying influences
- people don't like Fix You and 2nd half of the album is generally weaker
+/- inconsistent, but does have several really strong songs

Llamas
03-30-2012, 11:04 AM
Sup HAU? I guess we're gonna end up with polls for every single album pairing now... great. I guess I started it.

Mostly disagree with your descriptions. I think RFRG is way more cohesive than Splinter, and Splinter is the one with a few stand-out songs among drivel.

Degstur Lolland
03-30-2012, 11:09 AM
I don't know what I'm going to vote, but I'm more of a cohesive guy, on the other hand songs like Hammerhead and A Lot Like Me are impressive, I also like Kristy and SIMU.

I guess I like Splinter's artwork more. Too much of red on RFRG, kinda girlish front, but chains can be seen as tough.

Josh Freese seems to fit Splinter better.

The general topic of RFRG, good vs. bad, is a bit boring for me, but I discover that people don't know what's good and what's bad and so it's needed.

Splinter's gonna win for me, I guess, we will see.

@llamas, I thought of making this poll sooner and I so disagree with cohesive/diverse thing. I'm not interested in other pairings now.

BagOfShenanigans
03-30-2012, 11:27 AM
I'm waiting for a S/T vs Ignition thread. And an Americana vs Ixnay poll would be interesting.

keonii7
03-30-2012, 11:35 AM
Second half of RAFRAG pissed me right the hell off, but man, Hammerhead, YGGFK, and Trust In You waaaaaaay made up for that.

momo91
03-30-2012, 12:00 PM
Definitely RAFRAG: half truism, hammerhead, trust in you, a lot like me, kristy, SIMU are really great songs. I don't like fix you and rise and fall, but I think that also beside those top songs the medium level of the album is still higher than Splinter's.

Llamas
03-30-2012, 12:40 PM
Second half of RAFRAG pissed me right the hell off, but man, Hammerhead, YGGFK, and Trust In You waaaaaaay made up for that.

The second half of that album is definitely weaker - tracks 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 are weaker than 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 9. At least SIFU is in there to make the second half better. Splinter just has the suck mixed in with the good, Splinter has shittier bad songs than RFRG does. I'd rather listen to Kristy and Fix You than to Worst Hangover, When You're in Prison or Spare Me the Details.


the medium level of the album is still higher than Splinter's.

You're absolutely correct, in my opinion. Honestly, I'd compare the two albums like this:

Awesome +3 per song
Half Truism
Takes Me Nowhere
Trust In You
YGGFK
Hammerhead
A Lot Like Me
Stuff is Messed Up

The Noose
CGMHAU
Lightning Rod
Neocon

Good 0 per song
Nothingtown
Let's Hear it for Rock Bottom
Rise and Fall

Never Gonna Find Me
Da Hui
Hit That
Long Way Home
Race Against Myself

Bad -3 per song
Fix You
Kristy

Worst Hangover Ever
Spare Me the Details
When You're in Prison



15 points for RFRG
3 points for Splinter

Splinter's got fewer awesome songs, more bad songs, and just a whole bunch of average songs, in my opinion.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
03-30-2012, 01:02 PM
The second half of that album is definitely weaker - tracks 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 are weaker than 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 9. At least SIFU is in there to make the second half better.
My exact opinion of RAF, RAG

Tijs
03-30-2012, 01:19 PM
I don't understand that about RAFRAG, sure the 4 songs are rockin' and all, but so is Nothingtown. That's one of the best songs of the album, it just bounces somehow. Love to play that as loud as possible in the car. And then there's 'Rock Bottom' and 'Rise and Fall', those rock pretty hard too. I feel that when one of those songs were put between the first four songs, they'd be appreciated much more.

Srsly.

cool 2 hate 681
03-30-2012, 01:20 PM
Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace

Llamas
03-30-2012, 01:25 PM
I don't understand that about RAFRAG, sure the 4 songs are rockin' and all, but so is Nothingtown. That's one of the best songs of the album, it just bounces somehow. Love to play that as loud as possible in the car. And then there's 'Rock Bottom' and 'Rise and Fall', those rock pretty hard too. I feel that when one of those songs were put between the first four songs, they'd be appreciated much more.

Srsly.

Maybe, but we appreciate SIMU even though it's in the latter half of the album. Of the three songs you mentioned, Rock Bottom is my favorite. I love the verses of that song, but the chorus is kinda lame and doesn't really flow with the verses. Rise and Fall is on the lower end of the spectrum - every time I hear it, I think of American Idiot, which is a song I really don't care for. I think they tried to make the first half of the album darker, and the second half more upbeat and lighter... and I just happen to like the darker, more intricate half more.

Degstur Lolland
03-30-2012, 01:27 PM
CGMHAU I'm loving this. :D

How the hell do you give +3 to Neocon is beyond me. Takes Me Nowhere is 0 at best. I'm one of those not really into Half-truism and Trust In You. Hit That and Race Against Myself deserve more in my book. Spare Me The Details is damn catchy.

0-9 you assholes! You know what I'm going to do know. :D All the Splinter fans are dead or something. :D

Llamas
03-30-2012, 01:37 PM
CGMHAU I'm loving this. :D
Of course you are, HAU. But CGMHAU is the abbreviation of the song's name, so there :P


How the hell do you give +3 to Neocon is beyond me.
It may only be an intro, but it's by far the best intro they've ever put on an album. I think it's a great way to start the album - much better than Time To Relax, Welcome, or Intro... and I like it more than Disclaimer, too. It's heavy, it rocks, and it gets me ready to listen to some Offspring.


Takes Me Nowhere is 0 at best.
Takes Me Nowhere has awesome harmonies in the pre-chorus, and the counter-melody in the chorus is great. But it's the bridge that really does it for me on that song. So good.


I'm one of those not really into Half-truism and Trust In You. Hit That and Race Against Myself deserve more in my book. Spare Me The Details is damn catchy.
Fair enough. Diff'rent strokes... Race Against Myself is good, but it's pretty much generic emo rock. It always reminded me a lot of Linkin Park, though better. Spare Me the Details is just annoying for me. I never found it catchy; never got stuck in my head or made me wanna listen to it out of nowhere.


All the Splinter fans are dead or something. :D
Aren't you a Splinter fan? You're gonna kill yourself? I don't think much of the bbs would be upset about that ;)

Omni
03-30-2012, 02:17 PM
RaF,RaG is a much better album. But Splinter contains at least one of the best songs they've ever written for their three main sounds: Their standard punk rock anthems (Lightning Rod, The Noose), Their alternative sound (Race Against Myself, Head Around You), and their pop-punk sound (Hit that). Splinter is the diverse record, if you ask me. It's all over the place, it sounds like they couldn't decide which of their trademarks should command the record, so they wrote one or two awesome songs for each mode and then let filler infiltrate.


For the record, Worst Hangover Ever and Spare Me the Details are awesome songs - they just lose their novelty quickly. I find Hit That to actually have a little bit of staying power, though, since the lyrics aren't annoying.

RaF,RaG on the other hand, is a rocker pretty much all the way. They even experimented a little bit with A Lot Like Me.

Splinter is a great collection of songs, but it's the least coherent and cohesive output they've released, not to mention the fact that it was exceptionally short.

Outerspaceman21
03-30-2012, 02:20 PM
Rise and Fall was more diverse, giving a little something for everyone to enjoy, but I enjoyed the darker, heavier songs that were on Splinter. I'm a lot more forgiving of the length of Splinter, but it did have those tracks I didn't like, namely Worst Hangover Ever, but Rise and Fall wasn't without track I didn't like as well, like Fix You and Rise and Fall. If I had to choose, I'd probably go with Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace because of it's diversity, but I still really enjoy Splinter.

Omni
03-30-2012, 02:24 PM
RaF,RaG did offer a little bit of everything, I didn't mean to suggest it didn't - but it was consistently to-the-point and rocking. It flows so much better than Splinter, even the weaker songs at least seem to belong.

My Name Was Taken
03-30-2012, 02:25 PM
Personally, CO1 and Splinter are my favorites. However, this may be due to the fact that they are the only two that I do not own, so I haven't overplayed them.

Omni
03-30-2012, 02:27 PM
It's between Conspiracy of One and RaF,RaG for my #2 and #3. Co1 is very heavy on the pop side, but I happen to think the Offspring have always done pop-punk a great justice, and Co1 does nothing but prove that.


I think of Co1 as the Smash of pop-punk records.

Defender
03-31-2012, 02:33 AM
Splinter: It includes 10 tracks ("Neocon" & "When you're in prison" don't count as tracks for me). I don't like "Worst hangover ever" and "Race against myself", so 8/10.

RaF,RaG: It includes 12 tracks(13 adding "O.C.life"). I don't like "Fix you","Kristy" and "Let's hear it for rock bottom". 9/12 (or 10/13)

So, there is a subtle difference between the two...

dexterone
03-31-2012, 04:12 AM
For me,it's very easy to decide...Splinter is my most favorite album...I love Neocon,The Noose,Long way home,Race against myself,Head around you,Never gonna find me and Spare me the details...I like Hit that,Lightning Rod and The worst hangover ever (it's great when you're hung-over)...and I've got a neutral relation to Da Hui...actually I love it when I'm bored and need to listen to something fast and energetic...When you're in Prison is a bullshit,I usually don't listen to this one...
RafRag is also a good album but too diverse...I love You're gonna go far,kid,A lot like me and Stuff is messed up...I like Half-Truism,Kristy,Nothingtown and Let's hear it for rock bottom..I've got a neutral relation to Trust in you,Hammerhead,Takes me nowhere...but I really can't stand Fix you and Rise and Fall...IMO,that's the worst song they've ever written...
so I love 7 songs on Splinter and I only dislike one,whereas I've got only 3 favorites on RafRag and 2 songs I literally hate..but I can't say that Ragrag would be a bad album...but doesn't have so many energetic songs as Splinter

weezly
03-31-2012, 04:19 AM
i love rafrag, i like all the songs, nothingtown is pretty out there but its ok, but yeah rise and fall, i tried to play it last night on guitar and i was just playing american idiot one step higher.... i was playing it kinda wrong, but thats cause all i hear is american idiot, but the album as a whole is pretty amazing!
i love kristy, dont get the hate, but i guess it would stand out as weird if it was on ignition or smash, but i really like it

Defender
03-31-2012, 05:14 AM
Rise and Fall is on the lower end of the spectrum - every time I hear it, I think of American Idiot, which is a song I really don't care for.

Well, yes... "Rise and fall" is similar(not that much) to "American idiot" but this doesn't make it sound bad. I like "Rise & Fall" and I think it's an underrated track because of this similarity.

randman21
03-31-2012, 07:13 AM
Just wanted to pop in to say "Fix You" is probably my second or third favorite song on Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace. To me, it's a masterpiece. And while "Kristy, Are You Doing Okay" is by far my least favorite, it is one of the best songs to hear live.

As for Splinter, the one-two punch of "The Noose"/"Long Way Home", then the other one of "Never Gonna Find Me"/"Lightning Rod" can't be beat. To me, this is the album that proves album track order is an art in itself. Everything is right where it should be. Also I loooove "Worst Hangover Ever".

But the winner is clear for me. Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
03-31-2012, 12:00 PM
Songs on Splinter I would take the time to listen to while browsing YouTube:
The Noose
Hit That
(Can't Get My) Head Around You
Never Gonna Find Me
Da Hui
Spare Me The Details (I actually really like this track)

Songs on RAF, RAG I would take the time to listen to while browsing YouTube:
Half Truism
Trust In You
You're Gonna Go Far, Kid
Hammerhead
A Lot Like Me
Takes Me Nowhere
Stuff Is Messed Up

So It's basically 6/12 vs 7/12 tracks that I love on both albums.
Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace takes the edge in that way.

Now we shall compare the songs I don't like as much on each album.

On Splinter, Lightning Rod, Race Against Myself, and Long Way Home all kinda sound the same to me, and don't really offer anything special. On RAF, RAG it's the same with Nothingtown, Let's Hear It For Rock Bottom, and Rise and Fall. I don't really like any of those songs more than the others and they're pretty equal for me.

For okay songs, there's Kristy, Are You Doing Okay? on RAF, RAG.

Now it's time for the songs I don't like. On Splinter there's Neocon, Worst [Song] Ever, and When You're In Prison . On RAF, RAG there's Fix You.

Splinter vs Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace
Great Songs: 6/12 vs 7/12
Good Songs: 3/12 vs 3/12
Okay Songs: 0/12 vs 1/12
Bad Songs: 3/12 vs 1/12


Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace wins based off of those statistics generated by my opinion.

jacknife737
03-31-2012, 12:12 PM
RAFRAG and it's not even close.

Nothing against Splinter: as i mentioned in the other thread, with a bit of editing it would have made an awesome EP. But the first half of RAFRAG is pretty damn close to perfect, You're Gonna Go Far, Kid has become one of my favorite songs from the band.

And the latter half is a lot better than most give it credit; sure Fix You isn't exactly the band's finest hour, though i did appreciate them trying to branch out a little bit. Stuff Is Messed Up and Nothingtown make up for any faults.

Llamas
03-31-2012, 12:29 PM
The Noose
Hit That
(Can't Get My) Head Around You
Never Gonna Find Me
Da Hui
Spare Me The Details (I actually really like this track)

Songs on RAF, RAG I would take the time to listen to while browsing YouTube:
Half Truism
Trust In You
You're Gonna Go Far, Kid
Hammerhead
A Lot Like Me
Takes Me Nowhere
Stuff Is Messed Up

So It's basically 6/12 vs 7/10 tracks that I love on both albums.
Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace takes the edge in that way.


There's 12 songs on RFRG, not 10 ;)

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
03-31-2012, 07:36 PM
There's 12 songs on RFRG, not 10 ;)
Typo! Sorry about that. I'll go edit my post.

RageAndLov
04-04-2012, 05:57 AM
I think the good songs on Splinter are better than the good songs on RAFRAG. Splinter has some of the darkest songs the band has ever made, and Da Hui is one of Offspring's best songs of all time.

LIGHTING ROD
04-05-2012, 04:15 AM
I think the good songs on Splinter are better than the good songs on RAFRAG. Splinter has some of the darkest songs the band has ever made, and Da Hui is one of Offspring's best songs of all time.

Splinter also contains masterpieces "THE NOOSE", "LONG WAY HOME"," RACE AGAINST MY SELF", "CAN'T GET MY HEAD AROUND YOU"," NEVER GONNA FIND ME",and "LIGHTING ROD".....SPARE ME THE DETAILS has got a beautiful lyrics as "LIGHTING ROD" and "RACE AGAINST MYSELF"

ThunderPX
04-05-2012, 11:33 AM
Protip: it's spelled "lightning."

Llamas
04-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Protip: it's spelled "lightning."

Hahaha I just noticed that. Hilarious :D

Americana98
04-05-2012, 12:24 PM
Rise and Fall Rage and Grace for me without question. Splinter was a good CD just like all of Offspring's stuff are but it not only felt so short, (When You're In Prison was fun to listen to, once) but I also thought it lacked a lot of the personality you usually see on Offspring albums. Dexter's voice also sounded far too high-pitched on it. Just like Conspiracy of One I thought it sounded too polished; Brendan O'Brien I don't think was a great fit for The Offspring.

Rise and Fall Rage and Grace featured variety, the songs were longer and felt more memorable, and I loved tracks like Fix You. Didn't like Kristy and Rise and Fall but everything else on there I pretty much loved.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
04-05-2012, 04:39 PM
Protip: it's spelled "lightning."
"Lighting Rod" reminds me of those fluorescent tubes in schools and hospitals and most public buildings in general.

Degstur Lolland
04-05-2012, 05:16 PM
23:15, that's great considering the state of the community. :D

Pablon
04-05-2012, 06:30 PM
Well, Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace is a cool rock album (besides the name, lol), pretty diverse, with ups and dows, with a couple of great punk tunes, and new stuff. Splinter is maybe similar, but songs like The Noose, Lightning Rod, Never Gonna Find Me, Long Way Home, and so, makes Splinter a little bit more Offspring, more on the punk hardcore side. I'd rather Splinter.

RageAndLov
04-05-2012, 06:41 PM
Well, Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace is a cool rock album (besides the name, lol), pretty diverse, with ups and dows, with a couple of great punk tunes, and new stuff. Splinter is maybe similar, but songs like The Noose, Lightning Rod, Never Gonna Find Me, Long Way Home, and so, makes Splinter a little bit more Offspring, more on the punk hardcore side. I'd rather Splinter.

"Punk hardcore"? Really? Really!?

Pablon
04-05-2012, 06:51 PM
Sure, punk hardcore. What's your problem, pal? Those tunes are totally on the punk hardcore and melodic punk side, I have a punk hardcore background, I listen to bands like belvedere, pennywise, anchors for arms, lagwagon, and so on... so that's what I like that part from Splinter.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
04-05-2012, 07:46 PM
Splinter's totally hardcore man....

*snorts and chuckles*

BagOfShenanigans
04-05-2012, 08:12 PM
Yes.. Splinter. What could be more hardcore than a song about a hangover?


Lighting rod..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/65W_SRS_fluorescent_lamp_starting.OGG/mid-65W_SRS_fluorescent_lamp_starting.OGG.jpg

RageAndLov
04-05-2012, 08:12 PM
Sure, punk hardcore. What's your problem, pal? Those tunes are totally on the punk hardcore and melodic punk side, I have a punk hardcore background, I listen to bands like belvedere, pennywise, anchors for arms, lagwagon, and so on... so that's what I like that part from Splinter.

Yeah, you don't get more hardcore than Pennywise or Lagwagon.

Pablon
04-05-2012, 08:50 PM
Yeah, you don't get more hardcore than Pennywise or Lagwagon.

If you say so...



I was talking about a sound, it's the classic 90's punk hardcore sound, I'm not saying Offspring is like the Circle Jerks or the Adolescents, you wankers... calm down.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
04-05-2012, 10:47 PM
you wankers... calm down.
This is surprisingly the first time I've been called a wanker