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WebDudette
04-14-2012, 05:29 AM
I think this may have been discussed briefly at some point, but whatever.

Not sure why I've used image prompts for my last two threads, but here it goes:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/SystemSloth/pXP13.jpg

This shit is fucking stupid. You know what is more statistically likely? They stayed together out of social obligation and societal norms, their generation had a ridiculously negative stigma attached to divorce. It's likely that one or both of them were unhappy, but social repercussions and the historically difficult process of getting divorced greatly dissuaded them from the idea. Also, I'm not saying this particular couple didn't have the great communication required to fix and maintain a broken relationship over decades, but I don't think it's true of many similar marriages. Not to mention that many woman from their generation would be nearly incapable of providing any kind of life for themselves. I want to reiterate that this is a statistical and generational argument, I have no opinions about this single couple.

Anyway, forgetting all that stuff, fuck that noise. Why stay in a relationship you are unhappy in? I'm down for trying to work it out, give it the old college try, but don't stick around if either or both of you are unhappy. A lot of people want to make the argument that people should stay together for the children, but it's bullshit. I mean, maybe it works sometimes, but children are a lot more perceptive than people give them credit for. You think they don't hear you arguing at night and don't recognize or feel the unease, hatred, and tension? I can't vouch for all children, but I'd be so much better off if my parents split earlier. I had ulcers, sleep issues, and stress issues as a child because of all the shit my parents relationship put me through. I honestly can't imagine a situation where two happy parents in different houses isn't better on the kid than two unhappy parents who want nothing to do with each other living together. Maybe it works to stay together for the kids sometimes, but in my case and I suspect many others, it can make it so much worse. In any case, people who say that parents should stick it out for the kids, while having no idea what kinda shit goes on behind closed doors need to get punched in the teeth. Also, I know they're children and all, but I think it's unfair to expect people with irreconcilable differences to stay together for 18~ years.

If I could have it my way, I'd make marriage more difficult and divorces as easy as possible. I'd like to see marriages become more difficult because I live in Arizona and have dealt with more Mormons than I'd like. I believe it could be pretty damaging to some relationships and individuals to feel obligated to get married before you're 25, or within a year of meeting someone. I've seen people who get married at 18 to someone they've known for 3 months, and I know that shit is going to end in a train wreck. Plus, I'm sure we've all seen someone from high school in a shitty sham marriage that they jumped into with literally no prior thought or foresight. I've seen that go from bad, to worse, to even worse really quick. I'm not saying you force them to wait years or anything, just strongly recommend some literature or classes. I know that some divorces are so troublesome and time consuming because of the people involved, but from what I understand you can have two perfectly agreeable individuals and it's still going to cost you a fortune and take forever. There is literally no reason for that, let them devide up their shit and sign some nullification papers, ta-da. It's very possible that there are some legal issues I have no knowledge of and/or do not understand.

Sidenote: The backlash from Kim Kardashians divorce was obnoxious. Partially because it's stupid to get so wrapped up in other peoples marriages and ignorant to pretend you have any idea what was going on in their relationship. Mostly though it was all the people who were simultaneously whining about all the coverage and media that the Kardashian get while simultaneously shitting themselves over Kim's divorce.

Basically, don't fucking worry about other peoples relationships, or assume you have any idea what the fuck is going on.

mrconeman
04-14-2012, 05:32 AM
I basically agree, I just want to add that marriage as an institution is massively, massively retarded. Other than a few financial benefits (which are probably off set by the fucking insane amount of money people nowadays spend on their wedding event, causing them life long debt), it's just so completely out-dated and stupid.

"I love you."
"No I love you, lets get the Government involved!"

Offspring-Junkie
04-14-2012, 06:41 AM
Does anyone know what Pilz-E is doing right now, he somehow seems to be missing. This dude writes some strange stuff I know from other users, like shithead.

Llamas
04-14-2012, 08:21 AM
A lot of people want to make the argument that people should stay together for the children, but it's bullshit. I mean, maybe it works sometimes, but children are a lot more perceptive than people give them credit for. You think they don't hear you arguing at night and don't recognize or feel the unease, hatred, and tension? I can't vouch for all children, but I'd be so much better off if my parents split earlier. I had ulcers, sleep issues, and stress issues as a child because of all the shit my parents relationship put me through. I honestly can't imagine a situation where two happy parents in different houses isn't better on the kid than two unhappy parents who want nothing to do with each other living together. Maybe it works to stay together for the kids sometimes, but in my case and I suspect many others, it can make it so much worse. In any case, people who say that parents should stick it out for the kids, while having no idea what kinda shit goes on behind closed doors need to get punched in the teeth. Also, I know they're children and all, but I think it's unfair to expect people with irreconcilable differences to stay together for 18~ years.

I agree with everything you wrote up until this. If we're gonna use personal examples, I've got a couple of them.

1. My parents didn't stay together when I was born. My dad hightailed it out of there. I never knew him - my only memory of him was when I was 3 or 4 and we went to visit him, and he refused to give me a hug. My mom took full custody of me, and tried to raise my older brother and I alone. Child support was not enough, considering my mom was an interior decorator with an associate's degree, and my dad was the top Audi mechanic in the state of Wisconsin. We lived off spam, peanut butter and jelly, and mac and cheese most of the time. The three of us lived in a crappy two-bedroom apartment. It wasn't until I was 8 and my mom got married (to an asshole) that we were finally able to eat real food and move into a place big enough for everyone. My step dad is a jackass and I hate him, but things were substantially better with two parents around. At the very least, there were two people making decisions and things ended up being more fair. Plus we didn't basically live in poverty. One could argue that if my mom had had a better degree and a better job, this wouldn't have been a problem... but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people have crappy jobs and can't really support a kid on their own, let alone two. So in this case, splitting up really, really hurt the kids, and staying together was a better choice (even though my step dad and my mom had serious issues, I was always secretly glad they stayed together til I was out of the house... my younger sister and brother had to go through their divorce a few years ago, and both of them have emotional trauma from it that is much more severe than mine.)

2. My other big example is my older brother. He got married at 18, had three kids, and then they got divorced when he was like 25 or 26. Like my siblings and I, my nieces and nephew are horribly fucked up teenagers now - the issues with his ex moving around and avoiding dealing with anything, the shit she would say to the kids, and the guy she got together with after the divorce... sure, the last two things could've still happened if they'd stayed together, but would've been much, much less likely. Now he's married to a fucking asshole whom I can't stand, and they have two kids together. He's deliriously depressed and they have an awful marriage. His two little ones are too young to really be affected yet, but his older kids are getting more and more messed up because this woman treats them like crap, while coddling her "own" children. For my brother's sake, I want him to get divorced. I can't stand seeing him like this. But for the sake of his kids? I just don't know.

The point is that I don't know what is worse. I think it depends on the people involved, maturity and responsibility of the parents. I was definitely happy in my late childhood and teenage years that my mom stayed with my asshole step dad, but now I'm kinda rooting for my brother to get divorced.


If I could have it my way, I'd make marriage more difficult and divorces as easy as possible. I'd like to see marriages become more difficult because I live in Arizona and have dealt with more Mormons than I'd like. I believe it could be pretty damaging to some relationships and individuals to feel obligated to get married before you're 25, or within a year of meeting someone. I've seen people who get married at 18 to someone they've known for 3 months, and I know that shit is going to end in a train wreck. Plus, I'm sure we've all seen someone from high school in a shitty sham marriage that they jumped into with literally no prior thought or foresight. I've seen that go from bad, to worse, to even worse really quick. I'm not saying you force them to wait years or anything, just strongly recommend some literature or classes. I know that some divorces are so troublesome and time consuming because of the people involved, but from what I understand you can have two perfectly agreeable individuals and it's still going to cost you a fortune and take forever. There is literally no reason for that, let them devide up their shit and sign some nullification papers, ta-da. It's very possible that there are some legal issues I have no knowledge of and/or do not understand.

If I had it my way, getting "married" would totally be harder. You'd have to go through some couple's counselling, and yeah some classes with reading material and exams. But I don't agree with making divorce super easy, because a lot of people run away at the very first sign of conflict. If you've been unhappy for 5 years, that's a different story. But if your wife bought a new set of china dishes without telling you and you're pissed and you want a divorce... well, I'd compare how I feel about divorce to how I feel about getting a gun. Make people think about it, give them time, don't let them do it in a moment, and make them explain/"prove" why they think it's necessary. But I agree that divorce procedures right now are ridiculous.


I basically agree, I just want to add that marriage as an institution is massively, massively retarded. Other than a few financial benefits (which are probably off set by the fucking insane amount of money people nowadays spend on their wedding event, causing them life long debt), it's just so completely out-dated and stupid.

"I love you."
"No I love you, lets get the Government involved!"

Oh hi, it's me, that person who pretty much always agrees with you. I mean, I'm all for civil unions for tax/legal/whatever reasons, like my American friend who's been living here illegally for 10 years and is now worried about getting caught, so he and his girlfriend are gonna get married so he can get a legal status. I get why they'd wanna do that, and in general, I get why people want the legal status of their relationship and the benefits that come along with it. But I do NOT get tying a bunch of romantic, elaborate shit to a freaking legal procedure. I think it'd be best if they took all the legal stuff of marriage, called it a "civil union", made it an equal-rights kind of thing, left the rest of that shit under the "marriage" term, and let people do that part for fun if they want. Plenty of people would still have weddings, but I honestly know people who got married and had a wedding just for the legal process... but it's so expected that you have a wedding that they did that, anyway.

And don't get me started on how much money people waste on this shit in most countries. My GOD.


Does anyone know what Pilz-E is doing right now, he somehow seems to be missing. This dude writes some strange stuff I know from other users, like shithead.

Are you saying that he *used to* write "strange stuff", or that he's been writing "strange stuff" *lately*? I don't understand your comment. Do you disagree with this thread? Do you think people should stay married even if they hate each other?

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
04-14-2012, 12:30 PM
I think there's such a large need for divorces simply because people do not think about their partners enough before they get married. Some people over-look some really important characteristics that their partner should have.

This is the part where I brag about the low Canadian Christian divorce rates, which unfortunately would be a lie. They're pretty much the same as the overall divorce rate in Canada. That's because (in my opinion) basically everyone can become foolish when they're in love.

I think if people spent a lot more time making sure their partner was good for marriage, there would be a lot less divorce. People can really be blinded when they're in love.


Okay, that didn't really address the topic of this thread at all, because it's supposed to be about if divorce is bad or something. Whatever.

killer_queen
04-14-2012, 01:54 PM
I agree with all of you on how marriage should be more difficult than divorce. but I don't support the idea of "if you don't get on well, what's the point of staying together?". People have to learn that no relationship is flawless and they shouldn't be allowed to run away when they see a slightest amount of difficulty; divorce must be a more difficult process. I mean, if the people in a marriage are hating each other it would be great lesson for them to be forced to stay together a while; maybe that would make them stop jumping into a second marriage without a thought.

I think it would be best if people would see marriage as an investment instead of something romantic. It is hard to live alone after all, of course you can manage it but it's easier for two people. Marriage is a promise you make to help your partner for better or worse, and be there when your partner is sick or depressed or anything in return of the same things from him. And usually people decide to get a divorce after they took anything they can and realize that it's their turn to give.
Of course, my bitter thoughts might be affected by my latest experiences. My cousin, who has the habit of getting a divorce when he is bored, is breaking up with his third wife. Now I'm not judging and it is none of my business, they don't have any kids so there is no harm on anyone. Except...well, I recently heard that his wife has cancer. And she is an amazing woman, she has been very supportive and helpful not just to my cousin but to all our family. She has given all she could give to my cousin. And now because she became a nuisance he is running away and I think is the most unfair thing I've ever seen. It mustn't be so easy to escape, I don't care how unhappy he is. He made a promise and he must keep it and if he is an idiot at least the government force him.

About couples with kids though, I have no idea what should be done. Children suffer no matter what if their parents are fucked up. If they stay married it means fights that can be quite violent at home, if they get divorced -seeing what my mother does, they can still make life hell for them. And if they get married after the divorce it usually doesn't work because looks like no one wants children that are not their own. Maybe the problem is not marriage or divorce. Maybe people shouldn't be able to have kids without permission. Fucked people mustn't reproduce.

WebDudette
04-14-2012, 06:52 PM
I agree with everything you wrote up until this. If we're gonna use personal examples, I've got a couple of them.

Fair enough, I'm sure it's totally dependent on the family and parents. I'm a single child and ended up living with my father. My parents actually get along much better now that they aren't together. Mostly I just wanted to say that I hate when people with no understanding of what is going on try to tell people they have to stay together for the kids.


But if your wife bought a new set of china dishes without telling you and you're pissed and you want a divorce... well, I'd compare how I feel about divorce to how I feel about getting a gun. Make people think about it, give them time, don't let them do it in a moment, and make them explain/"prove" why they think it's necessary. But I agree that divorce procedures right now are ridiculous.

Yeah, I agree they should be asked to explain why they want a divorce, and I think no matter what it's going to take a week or two, but I've seen divorces last months. If someone wants to get divorced because their wife bought a china set though, who is anyone else to say no? If that is something that genuinely set him off, they probably shouldn't be together anyway. More likely though, it was the catalyst that set off a guy who was unhappy in his marriage and finally just lost his shit.


Fucked people mustn't reproduce.

Yes.

In a perfect world I'd like to see couple counseling or some kind of classes be required to get married, but I don't think it's right to force people to do something like that. Ultimately, it's their decision to make and all you can do is strongly recommend something. I also think a two or three month trial period with counseling before finalizing a divorce would be nice too, but if they're dead set on getting a divorce, why not make it as easy as possible.

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
04-14-2012, 07:31 PM
All this talk of heavy counseling and classes before marriage makes me think that this is what the republicans should be doing for marriage since they're always complaining about the moral fiber and the sanctity of marriage

Isolated Fury
04-14-2012, 07:44 PM
I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but I figured I might as well throw in my two cents. My views on this are very biased from personal experience that... hasn't really happened yet... It makes sense to me!

Anyway, I have friends that have separated parents and are completely great people. They have equal respect for each parent, they spend equal time with both parent, and they love both parents and their parents' partners. It all works out great. I also have friends that are completely fucking crazy because over their parental situation. Divorce can be ugly, and the children are the best evidence of this. They lash out at friends, they favor one parent over another, and they love a step-parent more than a natural parent. Now there are situations where if the parent is a piece of shit that isn't supportive or loving, then yeah, love the step-parent. But I've seen plenty of caring, great parents go overlooked because their child's opinion has been poisoned. I don't exactly remember where I was going with this, so I'm changing topics.

As for the institution of marriage, I agree that the government shouldn't necessarily be implanted into any relationship. It's wrong. Duh. I do, however, feel that marriage is a very important thing. It is a tradition. That alone should count for something. It does for me. Plus, I feel like just the simple act of wedding one another is a "glue" required to hold a family together. I feel like I would be in a completely different place in my life if I were married sometime before May 2011. I would actually love to be married. If it doesn't happen, oh well. I can do this single dad thing for as long as I need to and then some.

Offspring-Junkie
04-15-2012, 09:26 AM
Are you saying that he *used to* write "strange stuff", or that he's been writing "strange stuff" *lately*? I don't understand your comment. Do you disagree with this thread? Do you think people should stay married even if they hate each other?

I think that THIS Pilz-E is someone else who uses his account. It's just not his writing style. It's more like bighead who I refered to as shithead writes this.

PS: I'm not against marriage.

UgLy_eLf
04-16-2012, 09:03 AM
I think if people spent a lot more time making sure their partner was good for marriage, there would be a lot less divorce. People can really be blinded when they're in love.


So do you have to fall out of love in order to marry?

I don't have an opinion on the situation. I was against marriage growing up, now I am fairly neutral. I think that people are just too stupid to handle a long term commitment. Well not just stupid, but we all have to realize that we as people are constantly changing. I am certainly not the same person I was only 3 years ago, and its already causing issues in my relationship. Marriages should be more like short term contracts for a certain amount of time and if you break them you pay, YOU PAY!!!!

Little_Miss_1565
04-16-2012, 10:20 AM
I think marriage and divorce are things that should be entered into with great enthusiasm if the circumstances are ripe for it.

I want to get married - I've had dreams of a Vegas wedding with Elvis officiating since I was a wee girl. But the best thing that happened in my home life growing up was when my parents divorced. I was a C student, with the occasional B. My teachers were hovering over me to swoop in and save me when my grades plummeted when word got out that my parents were splitting up. But, all of a sudden, I became an A student. They left me alone after that.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
04-16-2012, 05:35 PM
So do you have to fall out of love in order to marry?

Of course not! I meant that you should have a preconceived idea about many of the characteristics that your partner should have before you meet them and fall in love with them. After you fall in love, it can be hard to see things that will become serious problems.

For example, here are some characteristics I'd look for (people are different, these are the ones I'd look for):
-Christian
-Similar opinions on raising/disciplining children
-Careful with money
-Trustworthy
-Free of drug addictions
-Loyal
-Kind to her friends/co-workers/family
-Not a lawyer :)

In most cases I'd try to avoid getting into a relationship with a girl without those characteristic (I'd give her a chance if she was a lawyer and met the rest of the criteria).

Harleyquiiinn
04-17-2012, 01:46 AM
Of course not! I meant that you should have a preconceived idea about many of the characteristics that your partner should have before you meet them and fall in love with them. After you fall in love, it can be hard to see things that will become serious problems.

For example, here are some characteristics I'd look for (people are different, these are the ones I'd look for):
-Christian
-Similar opinions on raising/disciplining children
-Careful with money
-Trustworthy
-Free of drug addictions
-Loyal
-Kind to her friends/co-workers/family
-Not a lawyer :)

In most cases I'd try to avoid getting into a relationship with a girl without those characteristic (I'd give her a chance if she was a lawyer and met the rest of the criteria).

KickHim, I thought you liked me ! And we can never be together ! How cruel !

But seriously, :confused:

About what Pilz-E said, that divorce should be easier, I don't agree but maybe because in France, divorcing, providing that the 2 people agree, is pretty easy. As you say, you divide all up, you sign a convention and there it is. You're divorced. Oh yes, you still have to see a judge who must approve the convention.

Easier than that ? No way.

2 people agreeing on everything is very very rare. You usually have children involved so that complicates things greatly. And you have to take into account the said children interest so the intervention of a third party, the judge, is absolutely necessary.

Not to mention that the 2 people aren't always "equals". In theory they are of course, but what about, let's say, a couple that has been together 20 years. During these 20 years, the woman (yes, it's still usually the woman), never worked to take care of her family. The husband had a pretty good situatiopn.

And now, she is 45, the kids are grown up so not a problem, but she never worked before and therefore, has no qualification, is too aged to get a training easily (besides, it's expensive) and she is not close to retirement.

You have a mechanism of pension for that. The ex-husband usually has to give a certain amount to his ex-wife to erase the disparities as much as possible.

Now, let's say there is no judge. The both parties negociate the amount the husband must give together. What happens if the wife doesn't have a very strong personnality ?

She is fucked.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
04-17-2012, 03:52 PM
KickHim, I thought you liked me ! And we can never be together ! How cruel !

I'm sorry, I didn't know you were a lawyer :(

Defender
04-18-2012, 01:06 AM
The marriage is a trip with no way back. Any couple must realize this note. It's not a game for me. Most of the people think that the marriage is just something more than a relationship; nothing more or less. That's a mistake. To make a marriage be successful the couple must realize that there is not divorce. If I didn't realize this note, I wouldn't get married.

Little_Miss_1565
04-18-2012, 09:33 AM
The marriage is a trip with no way back. Any couple must realize this note. It's not a game for me. Most of the people think that the marriage is just something more than a relationship; nothing more or less. That's a mistake. To make a marriage be successful the couple must realize that there is not divorce. If I didn't realize this note, I wouldn't get married.

Not sure I agree with that. While I agree that people should enter into a marriage with the intention of being together forever, if it's not working, it's not working, and no marriage is worth ruining your life over. The only thing that can't be undone or taken back is children.

Defender
04-18-2012, 09:48 AM
if it's not working, it's not working, and no marriage is worth ruining your life over. The only thing that can't be undone or taken back is children.

If it's not working you should know that before you get married. The marriage is the final step. I agree with you about the children. The children complicate any decision.

Little_Miss_1565
04-18-2012, 10:13 AM
If it's not working you should know that before you get married. The marriage is the final step. I agree with you about the children. The children complicate any decision.

Out of curiosity, how old are you?

Defender
04-18-2012, 10:33 AM
Out of curiosity, how old are you?

I am twenty eight.

Llamas
04-18-2012, 02:15 PM
If it's not working you should know that before you get married. The marriage is the final step.

So do you believe that divorce should legally not be an option, or what? I'm with you that people have a tendency to rush into marriage, and often have a, "We can always get divorced..." attitude, which is pathetic. I don't think it's a good idea to get married any sooner than about 5 years into a relationship, but how long do you have to wait until you're 100% sure nothing will ever go wrong? Divorce has to be an option, but people would get divorced less often if they made wiser decisions about getting married.

Defender
04-19-2012, 12:20 AM
So do you believe that divorce should legally not be an option, or what? I'm with you that people have a tendency to rush into marriage, and often have a, "We can always get divorced..." attitude, which is pathetic. I don't think it's a good idea to get married any sooner than about 5 years into a relationship, but how long do you have to wait until you're 100% sure nothing will ever go wrong? Divorce has to be an option, but people would get divorced less often if they made wiser decisions about getting married.

Let's say that the best time to get married is when you both decide to have children. That means that your relationship has moved to a higher(maybe the highest) level. You will never be 100% sure that nothing go wrong but you can be 100% sure about him/her (emotions,character,way of thinking). 5 years in a relationship is a reliable test but it is not always like this. May need 2 or 3 years. It's a matter of "chemistry" between the two for me. Divorce should legally be an option but should morally not be.

WebDudette
04-19-2012, 01:04 AM
I would like to get married some day, but I have no intention of having children, how does that work? Why is it morally wrong?

I've seen people be happy for 15 years, then they get depressed or unsatisfied. I don't know that I'd call it a moral issue, but I think it's wrong to stay in a relationship that is hurting you.

Harley, you have some great points (especially regarding people with no means of supporting themselves), my opinions were shortsighted.

Defender
04-19-2012, 02:29 AM
I would like to get married some day, but I have no intention of having children, how does that work? Why is it morally wrong?



Having children is important for me but not necessary for having a successful marriage. It depends on what you want from your life.

Little_Miss_1565
04-19-2012, 08:49 AM
Sometimes you think you know someone, then after several years maybe something happens in their life that changes them completely like the death of a loved one, or something about their personality that they've been hiding, or mental illness. I guess the point I'm making is that who we are is fluid, and who we are at the beginning of a relationship may not be who we are at the end of it, and if those personalities are no longer compatible, I think it's better for everyone involved to split up.

Llamas
04-19-2012, 01:43 PM
Let's say that the best time to get married is when you both decide to have children. That means that your relationship has moved to a higher(maybe the highest) level. You will never be 100% sure that nothing go wrong but you can be 100% sure about him/her (emotions,character,way of thinking). 5 years in a relationship is a reliable test but it is not always like this. May need 2 or 3 years. It's a matter of "chemistry" between the two for me. Divorce should legally be an option but should morally not be.

So let's say I'm with a guy for 5 years, we are madly in love, we decide to have babies, and we get married. Two years later, something changes in him (people are constantly changing) and he becomes verbally aggressive and makes threats to both me and our kids. Is it morally wrong for me to divorce him?

Defender
04-20-2012, 12:20 AM
So let's say I'm with a guy for 5 years, we are madly in love, we decide to have babies, and we get married. Two years later, something changes in him (people are constantly changing) and he becomes verbally aggressive and makes threats to both me and our kids. Is it morally wrong for me to divorce him?

You are with him for 5 years. You know his good and dark side of his character. If something like this happened(changing) it would be your fault because you didn't know him so well as you thought. It's not morally wrong for anybody to divorce somebody who use domestic violence or commit adultery. Yes, there are occasions like these but the source is their past. You should find it out before you get married. I don't disagree with your thoughts. I just believe that a successful marriage is up to you by 90% at least.

WebDudette
04-20-2012, 12:55 AM
So, only 10% on your partner?

I see no immorality in divorcing someone who makes you unhappy, save maybe a couple of examples. Situations where one partner gets sickly and the other decides they don't want to deal with the hassle so they leave, are pretty shitty.

Defender
04-20-2012, 01:36 AM
So, only 10% on your partner?



Of course not. 10% goes to specific situations. Little_Miss_1565 posted some of them (post #25). Your partner is an independent person, so he/she has got his/her own 90%.

Llamas
04-20-2012, 07:18 AM
You are with him for 5 years. You know his good and dark side of his character. If something like this happened(changing) it would be your fault because you didn't know him so well as you thought. It's not morally wrong for anybody to divorce somebody who use domestic violence or commit adultery. Yes, there are occasions like these but the source is their past. You should find it out before you get married. I don't disagree with your thoughts. I just believe that a successful marriage is up to you by 90% at least.

What a crock of shit. My step dad won my mom over with a load of lies. He manipulated her. He knew she was Christian, so he joined a church and pretended he'd been going there all along. He bought her a Bible for her birthday. He hid a lot from her - she found out he smoked weed, and she hated that, so he "gave it up" and just smoked at work and when she was gone so she wouldn't know - only problem was that he'd get aggressive when he was high, which isn't okay when young children are involved. He kept so many secrets from her, it wasn't until 10 years later that he finally let things slip out. He stopped going to church and admitted that he was never Christian. Then he got mad and choked my brother and beat up my sister, and then threatened to kill them - after TEN YEARS. Hindsight is 20/20 - it's easy to say my mom shouldn't have married him. But she had to be with him for TEN YEARS before she found out what a horrible person he was. You can never, ever be 100% sure about a person. Horrible for you to say my it's immoral for someone to have a divorce in such a situation, and that it was my mom's fault for marrying him.

Defender
04-20-2012, 10:04 AM
Horrible for you to say my it's immoral for someone to have a divorce in such a situation, and that it was my mom's fault for marrying him.

Your story is really shocking.
At first I said nothing about your mother(that it was her fault or something). I just posted my opinion to a social topic. Nothing more,nothing less.

There are always exceptions.There is not only black or only white. Sometimes, there is grey. I say that we should take the best possible low risk of an unhappy marriage. "Finding out who your partner is" is the only way. I can't think of something else.

killer_queen
04-20-2012, 10:09 AM
While I think people should show more effort when faced with difficulties in marriage and shouldn't jump so easily to divorce I find what Defender said very immature. It's almost impossible to know a person without going through difficulties together. You might know a person for ten years but usually most of the problems appear when couples start to do things related to money together. You wouldn't know a person's dark side when you don't see him faced with debts, death, sickness or any kind of threat. And no one is going to wait for a natural disaster to happen to get to know their partner better. Yes, one must think hard before getting married but no matter how much you do it you are still taking a chance.

dff_punk
04-20-2012, 10:24 AM
On a semi-related note, my sister is getting married just tomorrow and now I see this thread. Coincidence? :p

Llamas
04-20-2012, 11:21 AM
Your story is really shocking.
At first I said nothing about your mother(that it was her fault or something). I just posted my opinion to a social topic. Nothing more,nothing less.
But my mom fits into your definition of this social topic.


There are always exceptions.There is not only black or only white. Sometimes, there is grey. I say that we should take the best possible low risk of an unhappy marriage. "Finding out who your partner is" is the only way. I can't think of something else.
That's pretty much the point. It's not fair to say that divorce is immoral. You were talking before as though it was black and white - if you get married, you need to know your partner, and it's immoral to get divorced.


While I think people should show more effort when faced with difficulties in marriage and shouldn't jump so easily to divorce I find what Defender said very immature. It's almost impossible to know a person without going through difficulties together. You might know a person for ten years but usually most of the problems appear when couples start to do things related to money together. You wouldn't know a person's dark side when you don't see him faced with debts, death, sickness or any kind of threat. And no one is going to wait for a natural disaster to happen to get to know their partner better. Yes, one must think hard before getting married but no matter how much you do it you are still taking a chance.
As is not uncommon, I find myself agreed with teh Gulsah. High five, sista.


On a semi-related note, my sister is getting married just tomorrow and now I see this thread. Coincidence? :p
Aww, congrats to your sister! :)

Defender
04-20-2012, 12:34 PM
That's pretty much the point. It's not fair to say that divorce is immoral. You were talking before as though it was black and white - if you get married, you need to know your partner, and it's immoral to get divorced.



I view the marriage (and having children) as something very important. The most important thing in somebody's life. So the divorce should not exist as an option for me except in some extreme cases(personal opinion). If I got married and divorced I would not get married a second time.

killer_queen
04-20-2012, 12:51 PM
I think getting married for, say, three times is very much appropriate. I have a couple of wedding dresses in my mind and it would be terrible to choose just one and go with it. And I'm definitely getting a divorce if my husband gets bald. I mean you can't just foresee these things, it is an extreme case, isn't it?

Llamas
04-20-2012, 02:04 PM
I view the marriage (and having children) as something very important. The most important thing in somebody's life. So the divorce should not exist as an option for me except in some extreme cases(personal opinion). If I got married and divorced I would not get married a second time.

I think the problem here is that you're talking about your personal opinion for your own life, but all this time you'd been wording it as though you thought it should be true for everyone. That's like me and abortion - I'd never get one (unless I was raped/gonna die if I gave birth), but it's only MY opinion and I don't think my opinion on that should change the law.


I think getting married for, say, three times is very much appropriate. I have a couple of wedding dresses in my mind and it would be terrible to choose just one and go with it. And I'm definitely getting a divorce if my husband gets bald. I mean you can't just foresee these things, it is an extreme case, isn't it?
Sometimes I just love you so much.

Balding... ewwwwww.

killer_queen
04-20-2012, 02:25 PM
That's like me and abortion - I'd never get one (unless I was raped/gonna die if I gave birth)
Or unless the father has balding genes, amirite?


Sometimes I just love you so much.

Only sometimes? That's disappointing.

Llamas
04-20-2012, 02:36 PM
Or unless the father has balding genes, amirite?
Better off avoiding boning a dude who's got balding genes (genetic tests ftw) than taking any risks. But in a worst case scenario, totally. I don't want no kids who grow up to be ugly balding fuckers.


Only sometimes? That's disappointing.
Only the times when you post/I get the pleasure of being in contact with you.

Defender
04-20-2012, 02:49 PM
I think the problem here is that you're talking about your personal opinion for your own life


Yes and no. It's something I believe in. To make it simple:Think twice before you decide to get married. That helps to avoid a possible divorce.Divorce always leaves scars(psychological or emotional) and hurts people for the rest of their life.(Something like that)


Originally Posted by killer_queen
And I'm definitely getting a divorce if my husband gets bald.

Yep, this is an important reason to get divorced. lol :cool:

Degstur Lolland
04-20-2012, 08:42 PM
I'm with Defender here, but we are Slavic Europeans and there are obviously differences between the USA and Europe. However, Killer_queen is rather from uncivilised world. :D I'm sorry lady. @llamas, the things between you mom and father, that's just sad and low, I'm sorry, but that's it.

The world needs to improve on it so The Offspring stops singing about it. :D It's very idealist, but it should go this way.

And when marriage is broken, then grandparents should come so we don't have more Breiviks.

So, if everyone gets a basic income and works on himself, getting some education, then it will go Defender's way.

Llamas you seem to be smart enough to pick the right person, you just need to work more on math and statistics. :D I hope you have a great and happy life-long Marriage.

WebDudette
05-13-2012, 02:21 AM
Oh, this shit?:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/SystemSloth/tumblr_lxi7ymTcKW1qkb2g0o1_1280.jpg

Yeah, this shit is fucking stupid too.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
05-13-2012, 02:31 PM
Oh, this shit?:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/SystemSloth/tumblr_lxi7ymTcKW1qkb2g0o1_1280.jpg

Yeah, this shit is fucking stupid too.
How so? I'm not saying I disagree or anything, I just want your elaborated opinion. What's so stupid about that?

Llamas
05-13-2012, 03:22 PM
How so? I'm not saying I disagree or anything, I just want your elaborated opinion. What's so stupid about that?

There are tons of reasons it's stupid. A couple of them:

1) What if two people just want to have fun and are into each other for the time being? How are they using each other?

2) Not everyone wants to get married (like myself). So what, we should never date anyone?

3) A lot of people don't even think that far into the future. I know a lot of people who married people they never expected to marry. Maybe they'd never thought about it, or maybe their view of the person changed while they were dating.

4) Most people date multiple people before finding someone they want to spend their life with. Dating is a learning experience, a chance for growth. In the past, many people married the first person they dated, and then both people grew up and matured and changed, never having any other experience, and the relationship went way, way south. But they were too afraid of being alone or starting over because they had no experience, so they stayed in shitty relationships. Hell, that still happens, just not as much as it used to.

killer_queen
05-13-2012, 03:49 PM
5) How can you know if you can or cannot see yourself marrying someone without dating? Unless your standards are like "he has a nice car" or "nice tits".


2) Not everyone wants to get married (like myself).
What? I thought we had something special. I'm sorry but I'm not the kind of girl that you can just have fun with.

Llamas
05-13-2012, 03:57 PM
5) How can you know if you can or cannot see yourself marrying someone without dating? Unless your standards are like "he has a nice car" or "nice tits".
Right, I'm not that basic - I only date guys with a nice car and nice tits.



What? I thought we had something special. I'm sorry but I'm not the kind of girl that you can just have fun with.
I'm sorry, I thought you understood, baby... I just... I don't think I could spend the rest of my life with a filthy Turk who's probably gonna put a bomb in my dinner one night :( :( It's not you, it's me... who would explode and die. Can we still be friends?

mario_spaghettio
05-13-2012, 04:43 PM
It sounds like a lot of you people had a mother who was a whore. I can't stand when some slut thinks Mother's Day is about her. Mother's Day is for women of integrity who kept their vows.

Llamas
05-13-2012, 04:57 PM
It sounds like a lot of you people had a mother who was a whore. I can't stand when some slut thinks Mother's Day is about her. Mother's Day is for women of integrity who kept their vows.

Who's Father's Day for?

mario_spaghettio
05-13-2012, 04:58 PM
Who's Father's Day for?same.......

Little_Miss_1565
05-13-2012, 05:23 PM
Mario, successful trolls post at least semi-comprehensible statements.

Llamas
05-13-2012, 05:24 PM
same.......

I see. And whose moms in this thread sound like sluts? I'm the only person in this thread who even mentioned my mom, and she was pretty much the opposite of a slut.

mario_spaghettio
05-13-2012, 06:04 PM
I didn't actually read the thread. I just saw the words mom and divorce scattered about and filled in the blanks. There does seem to be a direct correlation though between the acceptance of various forms of sexual deviation and climbing divorce rates. The proverbial slope has never been slipperier.

Little_Miss_1565
05-13-2012, 06:04 PM
Have a seat, Mario. Tell us about your relationship with your mother.

jacknife737
05-13-2012, 07:07 PM
Have a seat, Mario. Tell us about your relationship with your mother.

I could probably sum it up for him in one word: Oedipus.

mario_spaghettio
05-13-2012, 07:50 PM
I knew you sickos were into horse fucking and gender bending, but incest too? Still think liberalism isn't a mental illness? Think again.

Isolated Fury
05-13-2012, 08:05 PM
I knew you sickos were into horse fucking and gender bending, but incest too? Still think liberalism isn't a mental illness? Think again.
We would think again, but we're too busy thinking about fucking the family horse, Mr. Ed, who happens to be undergoing hormone therapy to become a mare.

T-6005
05-13-2012, 09:46 PM
I guess I'll just riff on this.

I think that divorce is an integral part of marriage, and while I agree that it's a last resort, I have always believed that you should not be trapped in a situation that is loveless or abusive. You only live once and it's meaningless to begin with - might as well not waste the little you have.

Having said that, I do believe that people 'stayed together' more in previous generations. And while Pilz makes the point that it is based on societal pressures, it could also be due to the changing nature of women in the workforce in the last few decades. While women have contributed historically, they've only within the last seventy years integrated the industrial base, and only within the last fifty the rest of the professional workforce. The knowledge that your partner is the one bringing home money can be a big - if potentially selfish - motivator.

Still, in a sense that is 'societal pressure.' What has also changed is that there seems to be a more pervasive culture of things 'being wrong' and needing to 'be fixed.' While parts of this have come through welcome advances in knowledge about the way people view the world and themselves - for example, in the Tom Gabel thread - it also leads to an escape comfort for some people.

Obviously it's not for everyone - plenty of people trap themselves in loveless relationships or horrible states of mind. But just as many people don't. More people take the escape comfort of diagnosis or therapy than need it, because there's now an underline that if you feel there's something wrong, you can 'fix it.' Give people enough of that and they'll take you at your word and try and figure out what's going off in their lives - more often than not, it's not hard to find. And there's a chance that you'll look at something and just decide to move on instead of wondering about whether you can do something about it.

Is there something inherently wrong about that? Not particularly. Is it representative of an entire generation? Even less. But could it still be a valid observation?

Hey, I don't know man. I just skimmed the thread and got some bad vibes. I'm breaking this off right now.

killer_queen
05-14-2012, 04:20 AM
Right, I'm not that basic - I only date guys with a nice car and nice tits.
Like Jojan?

And there's nothing sick about incest. Everyone does it, it brings color to one's sex life. It can't be compared to horse fucking.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
05-14-2012, 06:37 PM
'llamas' post
Okay thanks. I wasn't arguing, I was just curious.


We would think again, but we're too busy thinking about fucking the family horse, Mr. Ed, who happens to be undergoing hormone therapy to become a mare.
That's brilliant. This forum has the most quotable people.

Beaker
05-15-2012, 08:16 AM
I am 23 and getting a divorse. When i got married i loved him very much. He as some of you know got arrested for child pornography. No images involved, just a stupid conversation about his ex girlfriend when he was younger on msn. He was 16 when he wrote this, but continued the conversation until he was 18. according to the law in my country that makes him perverted. After this i still loved him very much. I later found out that i can not have children leaving only adpotion and fostering as an option. He of course is on the watch list and is unable to do this. My decision was to divorse him so he has the oportunity to be a parent and my self. As much as it hurt and still does it was the right choice.

So anyone out there with a strong oppinion on divorse take a step back and really think about it. I was shamed to tell my family and it was the HARDEST decision of my life. Its not an easy one so dont just judge people. Divorse is usually the last option.

And marriage was the best thing i have ever done. When you love someone enough you will understand exactly why you do marriage thing.

Llamas
05-15-2012, 08:51 AM
I am 23 and getting a divorse. When i got married i loved him very much. He as some of you know got arrested for child pornography. No images involved, just a stupid conversation about his ex girlfriend when he was younger on msn. He was 16 when he wrote this, but continued the conversation until he was 18. according to the law in my country that makes him perverted. After this i still loved him very much. I later found out that i can not have children leaving only adpotion and fostering as an option. He of course is on the watch list and is unable to do this. My decision was to divorse him so he has the oportunity to be a parent and my self. As much as it hurt and still does it was the right choice.

I don't understand... he was talking about his ex girlfriend on MSN? Do you mean that when he was 18, he was talking on MSN about an ex who was 16?

Beaker
05-15-2012, 09:06 AM
He started the coversation when he was 16 to a friend, he started talking to that friend again when he was 18. This friend turned out to be a peado and had raped children. my husband was caught up due to his earlier part of the conversation. frickin weird cercumstance. BS if you ask me. ruined his life.