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View Full Version : The Joker's got everyone figured out



bighead384
04-14-2012, 12:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CvREXabdME&feature=related

Can't quite put my finger on it, but the first 15 seconds or so of this clip make me really hate Batman, and sympathize with the Joker.

The Joker just tells it like it is. I don't see everyone's problem with him.

XYlophonetreeZ
04-14-2012, 02:54 PM
Yup, we all secretly agree with the Joker lolololo


(I realize this is a less-than-serious thread.)

Llamas
04-14-2012, 03:04 PM
Can't quite put my finger on it, but the first 15 seconds or so of this clip make me really hate Batman, and sympathize with the Joker.

That's because Batman in The Dark Knight was horrible and not really the hero of the story (one of my biggest gripes with the film, as it was touted as a Batman movie). Everyone liked the Joker more in that movie. But in the original movie from the 80s, I was all about Batman. Plus he was sexier than the Joker.

bighead384
04-14-2012, 03:17 PM
Typical big city liberals from Gotham.

I don't know what to make of what they did on those ships. They didn't do what I would have done, so I'll just begin my thought process with the assumption that there's some sort of conspiracy of phoniness behind it all. I guess I'll just chalk it up to some sort of over-intellectualized theory or reverse psychology bullshit or something. Maybe they just wanted to seem like they were better than me and they wanted to brag about the whole thing later to all their friends at some hipster bar. But they don't deserve any credit, that's for sure.

Llamas
04-14-2012, 06:16 PM
I liked Batman better when you could understand the words he was saying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T78lwKBIQYs

And the 1989 batmobile was the best. But at 1:23, how on earth does the hook detach itself from that post so he can keep driving??

T-6005
04-14-2012, 08:38 PM
Wow, you really had to llamas that up.

Llamas
04-15-2012, 04:36 AM
Wow, you really had to llamas that up.

Huh? What are you talking about?

JohnnyNemesis
04-15-2012, 08:18 AM
(one of my biggest gripes with the film, as it was touted as a Batman movie).

I'm not seeing the problem here? He has to be the squeaky-clean hero just cause it's touted as a Batman flick?


Wow, you really had to llamas that up.

I lol'd mightily.



I don't see everyone's problem with him.

I'm down with mass murder too

mrconeman
04-15-2012, 08:33 AM
Hadn't seen this movie since the cinema, Jesus, Christian Bale's Batman voice is awful.

Llamas
04-15-2012, 08:41 AM
Hadn't seen this movie since the cinema, Jesus, Christian Bale's Batman voice is awful.
Christian Bale's Batman everything is awful. But yeah, especially the voice.


I'm not seeing the problem here? He has to be the squeaky-clean hero just cause it's touted as a Batman flick?

Huh? No? I didn't say he has to be squeaky-clean... I much prefer movies where the hero is flawed and all that... just didn't feel like a Batman movie, but rather like a Joker movie. Batman didn't even feel like the main character, plus he was annoying.


I lol'd mightily.
I still don't get it... :-/ Lame to make fun of someone and not explain...

Sorry I tried to avoid this thread turning into yet another flame debate with bighead, and instead tried to make it a general conversation about Batman movies?

bighead384
04-15-2012, 10:50 AM
I tried to avoid this thread turning into yet another flame debate with bighead, and instead tried to make it a general conversation about Batman movies?
What? You STILL think I'm serious?

"big city liberals from Gotham"

It amazes me that seemingly everyone who saw the movie didn't like Bale's Batman voice, but people who are paid to make movies didn't notice that it was annoying. How does that happen?

JohnnyNemesis
04-15-2012, 11:32 AM
just didn't feel like a Batman movie, but rather like a Joker movie. Batman didn't even feel like the main character

I hear ya, but I guess I'm still not seeing the problem aside from a matter of semantics, I guess?

Llamas
04-15-2012, 11:46 AM
I hear ya, but I guess I'm still not seeing the problem aside from a matter of semantics, I guess?

I guess for me it was just kinda like when I bought Mario 2 for Nintendo. It was a really good game once I accepted that it wasn't a Mario game, but as a Mario game, it was FUCKING AWFUL.

The Dark Knight should've had a different title and shouldn't have been called a Batman movie, but rather a Joker movie. It just didn't meet my expectations at all as a Batman movie. I only watched it once and haven't gotten past that. I think if I watched it more and was able to stop seeing it as a Batman movie, I'd be able to appreciate it more.

Degstur Lolland
04-15-2012, 12:48 PM
Awright guys, I'm just going to kill it. Jim Carrey was the best Joker.

Llamas
04-15-2012, 12:51 PM
Awright guys, I'm just going to kill it. Jim Carrey was the best Joker.

? Jim Carrey has never played Joker.

bighead384
04-15-2012, 03:59 PM
ilovellamas, why did you feel that you had to avoid a flame debate with me? It was immediately established that the thread was a joke. You just said that you didn't like being made fun of without explanation. Now you're sort of doing the same thing.

Static_Martyr
04-15-2012, 04:24 PM
? Jim Carrey has never played Joker.

Successful trolling is successful :D

Llamas
04-15-2012, 05:14 PM
ilovellamas, why did you feel that you had to avoid a flame debate with me? It was immediately established that the thread was a joke. You just said that you didn't like being made fun of without explanation. Now you're sort of doing the same thing.

I didn't make fun of you (how on earth did I make fun of you? I know you won't answer that, because it's not true), and I didn't say that I was preventing myself from getting into a debate. Just was trying to move the thread in a general direction of talking about Batman.

Also considering I had nothing to contribute to your original "joke", and I like Batman.

Edit: Though I figured your first post couldn't have been serious, where on earth did you "immediately establish" that it was a joke?

bighead384
04-15-2012, 05:20 PM
Whatever llamas. I said you're "sort of" doing the same thing. As in, you also said something that makes me look bad and didn't explain anything. So just pretend I said that instead of that you "sort of did the same thing". The rest of your post just makes me *sigh*.

Degstur Lolland
04-15-2012, 06:18 PM
? Jim Carrey has never played Joker.
Oh, wait. What role was it? He had a crazy dress with question marks. Then, there was half-face man.

wiki: the Riddler

I killed it. :D No idea why I thought he was Joker. (probably because Jim jokes all the time) Really poor Batman knowledge.

Alright. the Riddler > the Joker

And what's up with Two-Face? Poll material...

Llamas
04-15-2012, 06:31 PM
Oh, wait. What role was it? He had a crazy dress with question marks. Then, there was half-face man.

wiki: the Riddler

I killed it. :D No idea why I thought he was Joker. (probably because Jim jokes all the time) Really poor Batman knowledge.

Alright. the Riddler > the Joker

And what's up with Two-Face? Poll material...

I realized after I commented that you probably meant Riddler. Why'd you like Riddler more than Joker? Or did you just like the actor more?

bighead384
04-15-2012, 07:12 PM
Oh, wait. What role was it? He had a crazy dress with question marks. Then, there was half-face man.

wiki: the Riddler

I killed it. :D No idea why I thought he was Joker. (probably because Jim jokes all the time) Really poor Batman knowledge.

There's something similar about the Joker and Riddler. They both have that sick humor about things while there, you know, killing people and stuff.

Degstur Lolland
04-15-2012, 07:16 PM
WIKI:
Scott Beatty felt "Tommy Lee Jones played Harvey Dent as a Joker knock-off rather than a multi-layered rogue."

Two-Face + Riddler = Joker
Hmmm??? Simplistically yes, but not really on every level I guess, would have to study Batman...

I'm probably obsessed with Jim Carrey, but I guess I love the Riddler role too. It blows me away. Insane combination.

Llamas
04-15-2012, 07:21 PM
There's something similar about the Joker and Riddler. They both have that sick humor about things while there, you know, killing people and stuff.

Yeah, that's true. Both are fairly "comic" villains. The movie version of Mr. Freeze was, too, but he sucked. I'd compare Joker and Riddler in that way, I suppose.

Degstur Lolland
04-15-2012, 08:08 PM
Are they going to remake Return and Forever?

WebDudette
04-16-2012, 09:09 PM
I imagine the source material for Nolan's movies are a lot different than the source material for the other Batman movies. I haven't read The Dark Night series, but if I remember Arkham Asylum correctly, it was essentially the Joker driving Batman crazy. I don't see a problem with how Joker heavy the Dark Night was, I still see the two movies as Batman movies and expect that the Dark Night Rises will be similar.

My actual issue with Christopher Nolan is how much useless shit he wants to shove in all his movies. I was talking about how amazing Drive was for it's simplicity yet amazing action, story telling, and character development. I used Christopher Nolan as an example of someone who just wants to shove as much useless dialogue, exposition, characters, and confusing contrived story lines into his movies as possible yet still makes entertaining movies, they are not generally movies I want to watch multiple times though. Anyway, a guy from work got all kinds of butthurt about that and was trying to explain that Nolan does that as part of character development and that's why all of his character are so in depth and strong. lolololol nope. I like Christopher Nolan's movies and I'll keep watching them, but he has a serious problem with over-complicating things, too many loose ends. I'm still excited for Dark Knight Rises though.

jacknife737
04-16-2012, 10:57 PM
The thing with a comic book character like Batman that has been covered by so many different writers and story-lines over the years is that there are a lot of different versions to pull from. I definitely don't think having a heavy joker centric plot is a bad thing - look at say Alan Moore's The Killing Joke or as PilZ-E mentioned wtih Arkham Asylum, they're approaches to the Joker character remind me of Nolan's.

So even though i would certainly agree that Ledger's Joker was a more interesting character than Batman in the film, it didn't really bother me. With

@PilZ-E I wouldn't exactly say that he includes "useless" dialog in his movies, but there are ceertainly small subplots that could have been wrapped up sooner or even cut out (like say the Hong Kong scenes in TDK) - but even though the movies tend to be a bit over-long, that those unnecessary scenes are well made enough to keep me interested and entertained. /fanboy'd

WebDudette
04-16-2012, 11:25 PM
I fully understood the concept and story line of Inception, but there was a bunch of sidelines I didn't understand or even remember, there were some characters I totally forgot about, and by the end of the movie I'd forgotten why they were there in the first place. I think it could have been a lot better if he cut out all the nonsense. I had these problems watching Batman Begins and the Dark Knight a few months ago. I wish I could remember some specific examples, but that was kind of the problem. If I watch anything of his soon, I'll try to remember some specifics and get back to this thread. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just not my thing.

Isolated Fury
04-17-2012, 07:42 AM
You can read this (http://www.cracked.com/blog/advanced-batman-theory-why-nolan-will-kill-bruce-wayne/) to learn another approach to the Batman story as told by Nolan. And I think that's the issue. This isn't so much a Batman story as much as it is a Nolan interpretation of a certain story that has an established history and atmosphere which also happens to include Batman.

jacknife737
04-17-2012, 11:56 AM
You can read this (http://www.cracked.com/blog/advanced-batman-theory-why-nolan-will-kill-bruce-wayne/) to learn another approach to the Batman story as told by Nolan. And I think that's the issue. This isn't so much a Batman story as much as it is a Nolan interpretation of a certain story that has an established history and atmosphere which also happens to include Batman.

I agree with this sentiment, and i think its actually the reason why I enjoyed TDK so much: Nolan was essentially making a Michael Mann style crime thriller like say Heat, that just happened to be set in the Batman universe.

And based on the trailers for the Dark Knight Rises, i think he's done the same thing: except this time its being influenced by the Bond movies rather than a crime thriller. I mean has anybody seen the prologue for the movie that was posted online? It honestly looked like it could have been the opening scene for Skyfall.

Degstur Lolland
04-17-2012, 12:52 PM
Alright, so no Penguin and Riddler...we will get Bane.

Isolated Fury
04-17-2012, 01:02 PM
I honestly wish I knew more about the Batman universe. I was never a huge fan. I know the core villains such as the Joker, the Riddler, Two-Face, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, the Penguin, and Catwoman. I know about Robin, Alfred, and Wayne's dead parents. That's about it, though. After watching the new trailer to The Dark Knight Rises, I realized I had no idea what was going on. I couldn't identify the villain. I was completely lost when Bruce was dancing with that woman. I know the commissioner is supposed to be important, but I don't know how that exactly works. I think it's time to wiki this shit.

Defender
04-18-2012, 01:32 AM
I prefer Jack Nicholson as Jocker. I got dissapointed with Heath Ledger's character(his acting was good,though). Batman was my favorite superhero when I was a child and Tim Burton's film(1989) is closer to the real Batman-universe. Nolan's movie is a variation of the real myth. I like "Dark Knight" as an independent movie and not as a Batman-movie.

P.S. The Joker's face was created by a toxical accident and his mouth's appearance is exactly like Jack Nicholson's(Batman-1989). Heath Ledger's mouth's appearance is completely wrong(The Dark Knight-2008).

Llamas
04-18-2012, 04:30 PM
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/user_photos/1256197/2f190b57d58ef32eae1626fccf4b634b_width_640x.jpg

Outerspaceman21
04-18-2012, 06:58 PM
I dislike Christian Bale as Batman, one of the reasons why I don't care much for the new Batman movies. They are good action films with a coherent plot, but it seems the focus of the movie is more on the villains rather than Batman himself, mostly in The Dark Knight, but I credit that to Heath Ledger's interpretation of the Joker. He plain upstaged Christian Bale in The Dark Knight and stole the show for me. Regardless of how much you've read Batman comics, The Joker in The Dark Knight is just so well written and interesting to follow, whereas Batman isn't very interesting, mostly because of Christian Bale. Bale just doesn't fit the role in my opinion.

T-6005
04-19-2012, 01:53 AM
On a side note, the greatest Riddler story has yet to be written. Riddler should be a dangerous and brilliant character, but in a far more logical way than the Joker.

Batman and the Joker are the ultimate force of order/force of chaos unbalance, they are the harrowed yet normative psyche versus the unbalanced morality that comes from a lack of behavioral binaries.

The Riddler, on the other hand, should always acknowledge Batman's reality and attempt to beat him at it. I've heard that Dark City and Hush are pretty good at portraying these, but I've only read Hush once (very quickly before buying it for a friend) and didn't quite pick up on it. My favorite version of the Riddler in is Brian Azzarello's 'Joker,' where the titular character needs something and realizes that he has to visit a crippled Edward Nigma to acquire it. They have an exchange that's always stuck with me. I'll include it here, though the art really sells it for me, the position of the characters, the sudden emotional history flowing between one of Batman's rogues and his nemesis. There's a palpable energy in the pages, and I would vividly recommend really any of Azzarello's villain portraits - 'Luthor' is almost as good as 'Joker.' Easily the best part of the arcs is that they are clearly meant to be read by adults, not people who just feel the need for a superhero story arc.

The quote adds bolds where they are added in the text. I would strongly recommend the actual trade paperback.

Riddler, faced down by Joker's guns, clearly crippled, shows up in a BMW, and makes a trade, fully knowing that Joker barely needs him once he has what he wants.

Riddler: Mmm... When the world is against, you, where's the safest place to hide?
Joker: Hmmm. I'm...
Joker: Stumped. Hehehehehhheh. I don't get you, Edward. Yer motivations. You're wise, but your why's are completely lost om me.
Joker: Strange, how that sounds, isn't it?
Joker: You might call it puzzling.
Riddler: Shall we get down to business?
Riddler: What do you plan to do with that?
Joker: My business.
Riddler: Ah. Getting everyone's attention.
Joker: I could care less about anyone else's. How did you acquire-
Riddler: It was supposed to be impossible to steal.
Riddler: So I stole it. Let's do this again.
Joker: Edward- If I were you- I'd get out of down.
Riddler: Joker, if I were you--
Joker: You'd know that the safest place to hide...
Joker: Is in sanity.

For me, the best part of the exchange is that the two villains only distinguish themselves with respect to Batman, and not against each other. Neither understands the other's motivation, but they'll both play in strange ponds just to make themselves stand out. Joker has other phenomenal moments, but as someone who truly believes that Riddler has yet to have a brilliant story arc, it was a great moment.

Llamas
04-19-2012, 05:11 AM
Easily the best part of the arcs is that they are clearly meant to be read by adults, not people who just feel the need for a superhero story arc.

Lol, so people who aren't really fans of superhero stuff and just like what they've grown up watching aren't adults? I guess I'm a child, then. :( :(

Gregmau5
04-19-2012, 06:33 AM
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/user_photos/1256197/2f190b57d58ef32eae1626fccf4b634b_width_640x.jpg

I lol'd so hard.

T-6005
04-19-2012, 01:59 PM
Lol, so people who aren't really fans of superhero stuff and just like what they've grown up watching aren't adults? I guess I'm a child, then. :( :(

Certainly seems that way.

Especially since I meant it as nothing more than a commentary on the type of writing used in the plot arcs, not as a castigation of other superhero stories. But I guess you just flew right past that.

Llamas
04-19-2012, 02:45 PM
Certainly seems that way.

Especially since I meant it as nothing more than a commentary on the type of writing used in the plot arcs, not as a castigation of other superhero stories. But I guess you just flew right past that.

I was laughing at the odd wording, because while you obviously didn't intend it that way, the sentence very much read as though people who like superhero stories aren't adults. Hence the "lol" and purple faces abound. :)

Lizardus
04-21-2012, 09:02 PM
Huh? What are you talking about?

You had to Britta that up...

Sidewinder
05-01-2012, 04:06 AM
Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne was pretty solid.

WebDudette
05-01-2012, 04:57 AM
except for the cookie monster voice.

Dann
05-01-2012, 05:03 AM
Has anyone seen the newest trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8evyE9TuYk&feature=player_embedded)? :3 Looks good.

Sidewinder
05-01-2012, 05:04 AM
By Bruce Wayne I mean specifically the times he was not being Batman.