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View Full Version : Tom Gabel comes out as trangendered



Little_Miss_1565
05-08-2012, 07:36 PM
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tom-gabel-of-against-me-comes-out-as-transgender-20120508

This makes me like her even more. I've had several friends transition (though all of them F to M), and I have been in awe of the metaphorical balls it takes for transgendered people just to be themselves every time.

I guess you could say he stopped, took some time to think, and figured out what's important to her. WERK, GIRL.

0r4ng3
05-08-2012, 08:41 PM
Wow, did not expect this at all. Sounds like she maaaaade a serious decision. Also yeah it's pretty awesome. I wonder how the band's gonna sound afterwards.

Edit: Relevant lyrics:


If I could have chosen, I would have been born a woman.
My mother once told me she would have named me Laura. (http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/againstme/theocean.html)

Outerspaceman21
05-08-2012, 08:42 PM
Hmmm, interesting. Personally, I'm not sure how to take this situation. It seems like some kind of elaborate practical joke, mostly because of how out of the ordinary it appears. If it is indeed true, then that would be kinda interesting to see how it pans out. I wonder how this would effect Against Me! and their music.

Tijs
05-08-2012, 08:52 PM
Not very original though, Davey Havok and all..

Little_Miss_1565
05-08-2012, 09:12 PM
Not very original though, Davey Havok and all..

Lol. Davey self-identifies as male though doesn't he? But I definitely have wanted Davey to do my makeup for a very long time.

bighead384
05-08-2012, 09:29 PM
I am uncomfortable with this.

0r4ng3
05-08-2012, 09:46 PM
So a few people are concerned about how her voice will change, but others are saying how it won't change that much since puberty and testosterone already stretched the vocal cords. So most of the change would just be in singing style, if any. At least that's what I'm getting from all of this, correct me if I'm wrong.

Tijs
05-08-2012, 10:13 PM
I assume that having a hormon treatment would also affect the voice somewhat.

Little_Miss_1565
05-08-2012, 10:15 PM
I dunno. I'd imagine preserving the singing voice she's become known for might be low on her priorities list right now, but I could be mistaken.

"Tom Gabel of Against Me" was a worldwide trending topic on Twitter when news broke, just about all of it positive. Gives me hope.

0r4ng3
05-08-2012, 10:18 PM
I dunno. I'd imagine preserving the singing voice she's become known for might be low on her priorities list right now, but I could be mistaken.
I do understand that, I'm just going on what some commenters are saying. It might not be a top important thing, but it is one of the things nonetheless, that people are talking about.

T-6005
05-08-2012, 11:05 PM
Big fucking deal. If people are worried about preserving her 'he' voice, they'll have half a fucking mind and listen to the older record where they feel safe identifying a singer's gender through their tonal range.

It's gendering that feels safe because it's supposedly been brought into the realm of sex.

Supportive is good, but how has it become a point of worry whether someone 'sounds' like a woman? Old Against Me! (as much as I hated them) records will never go away, and perhaps more significantly, people are somehow jumping on the 'voice is gender bandwagon.' And that one does bother me.

To put my ease with gender/voice/register issue more into perspective, I present 'Boomerang,' by Serge Gainsbourg and reimagined by Etienne Daho and Dani -Found here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP4nmAe6SnE). My (admittedly entirely personal) favorite example of singing that manages to ignore idiocies like whether someone sounds like a man or a woman.

Personally, I'll Judith Butler this one until the end of the day.

Little_Miss_1565
05-08-2012, 11:18 PM
Thi, I was 100% with you until Serge Gainsbourg. I can't abide that old creep, though I appreciate his impact on music. :)

While you are correct that voice is not gender, hormone therapy does change voices. At least when the F to M guys I knew began transitioning, their voices became deeper, and alto singers became baritones.

0r4ng3
05-08-2012, 11:39 PM
Geez, all I said was that people were curious about it. I didn't say a thing about anyone being disappointed or angry about it. I mean, there are so many that are still unfamiliar with the whole concept, myself included. That doesn't mean I'm some kind of asshole for asking questions.

In all honesty I don't even listen to the band anymore, so I couldn't care less whether or not this makes them sound "better" or "worse". I, as well as many others, are just legitimately curious here.

Alison
05-09-2012, 02:23 AM
This is pretty cool, and good on her for actually taking the step of going ahead with it. It must be a pretty hard subject to approach your wife with!

I will just miss how bloody hot he/she was! But who knows, he may turn into a girl crush.

RageAndLov
05-09-2012, 02:32 AM
Holy shit! I just read about it now checking the front page of a Norwegian newspaper. AM! is coming to Norway in July and I am going to see them then. I am very shocked of this news, mildly put. I actually kind of doubt the whole thing, and that it is more a publicity stunt he is doing in order to spread awareness of people being transgenders.

And The Ocean suddenly got a whole new meaning.

Defender
05-09-2012, 02:49 AM
I absolutely disagree with his/her decision but it would be interesting to see what will happen...

RageAndLov
05-09-2012, 02:57 AM
I absolutely disagree with his/her decision but it would be interesting to see what will happen...

In what way do you disagree with his decision? Because of the different voice he most likely will end up with? Or because of something else?

For me, I would hate to have his voice changed even further than the one he had back in the days and which I fell in love with. I really wonder what will face me when I am at AM!'s concert in two months.

Defender
05-09-2012, 03:41 AM
In what way do you disagree with his decision? Because of the different voice he most likely will end up with? Or because of something else?


I am against transgender,anyway but in this specific situation the different voice and appearance will cause many reactions by the fans. I don't think the majority of the fans will accept it or deal with it. I am not a fan of this group so I can't tell for sure but there 'll be probably criticism. As I said,it would be interesting to see what will happen,though.

RageAndLov
05-09-2012, 04:25 AM
I am against transgender,anyway but in this specific situation the different voice will cause many reactions by the fans. I don't think the majority of the fans will accept it or deal with it. I am not a fan of this group so I can't tell for sure but there 'll be probably criticism. As I said,it would be interesting to see what will happen,though.

What's wrong with transgender in itself? If someone doesn't feel right in his or her own body, isn't it great that there is a way for them to be what they want and what they identify themselves as?

And whether or not the majority of fans will accept this, it kind of depends on how much the voice will change, if the change is noticeable at all. That's my biggest concern really. It's just shocking to hear him actually going through the process of transgender, because I have this image in my head of what Tom Gabel is, and that has been completely destroyed now.

I wonder how his wife deals with this. I know he said in his interview that she fully supported his choice, but I'm thinking, what about the physical attraction she presumably has for him? He is going to change his body in order to make it appear as a woman's, he might change the way he dresses and he might wear feminine make-up. She got attracted by a man and married him, but lives now with a woman. Of course, on the inside, Tom Gabel is the same person.

Llamas
05-09-2012, 06:08 AM
Wow, very interesting news! I've got a lot to comment on here... :)


I guess you could say he stopped, took some time to think, and figured out what's important to her.


Sounds like she maaaaade a serious decision.
<3 u guise. I wonder if he's gonna shove this right back in their fucking face?


Edit: Relevant lyrics:
Ooh, very interesting! I love it when some minor, passing comment in lyrics turns out to be a major part of a singer's life much later...


Hmmm, interesting. Personally, I'm not sure how to take this situation. It seems like some kind of elaborate practical joke, mostly because of how out of the ordinary it appears. If it is indeed true, then that would be kinda interesting to see how it pans out. I wonder how this would effect Against Me! and their music.
Well, I doubt it'll affect their music at all... why would it? Unless you're simply talking about the timbre of his voice, which I'll comment on in a bit... but that's not gonna affect their music.


Lol. Davey self-identifies as male though doesn't he? But I definitely have wanted Davey to do my makeup for a very long time.
He's cisgender, for sure... but that man has amazing makeup skills. I could learn a lot from him ;)


So a few people are concerned about how her voice will change, but others are saying how it won't change that much since puberty and testosterone already stretched the vocal cords. So most of the change would just be in singing style, if any. At least that's what I'm getting from all of this, correct me if I'm wrong.
If she takes hormone treatment (which is almost certain she will, because it's a pretty expected part of transition), her voice will change a bit. It'll become a bit softer and higher pitched. But trans people's voices never change entirely; she'll still have a fairly masculine-sounding voice. The change is really not that drastic.


"Tom Gabel of Against Me" was a worldwide trending topic on Twitter when news broke, just about all of it positive. Gives me hope.
:) Unfortunately, that's just because the people who know who Tom Gabel is are pretty much already gonna be liberal progressive folks, rather than bigots. (Get Kirk Cameron to have a sex change, and see how people react... oh, god, I just laughed inside at the thought of Kirk Cameron admitting this... hiding it all his life... it would make too much sense!)


Big fucking deal. If people are worried about preserving her 'he' voice, they'll have half a fucking mind and listen to the older record where they feel safe identifying a singer's gender through their tonal range.

It's gendering that feels safe because it's supposedly been brought into the realm of sex.

Supportive is good, but how has it become a point of worry whether someone 'sounds' like a woman? Old Against Me! (as much as I hated them) records will never go away, and perhaps more significantly, people are somehow jumping on the 'voice is gender bandwagon.' And that one does bother me.

To put my ease with gender/voice/register issue more into perspective, I present 'Boomerang,' by Serge Gainsbourg and reimagined by Etienne Daho and Dani -Found here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP4nmAe6SnE). My (admittedly entirely personal) favorite example of singing that manages to ignore idiocies like whether someone sounds like a man or a woman.

Personally, I'll Judith Butler this one until the end of the day.

I agree, but I don't think anyone's freaking out about it. Just wondering. Hell, I'm curious about how his voice will change in the music, and I once dated a trans girl. :P Different voices have different affects on music. Simply following a male/female divide is dumb, but after a transition like this, the voice will change, and I understand why people are curious as to how.


I am against transgender,

People need to stop being concerned about things that have zero effect on them. "It's different from me! I don't understand it! Therefore, it's wrong."

Defender
05-09-2012, 06:40 AM
People need to stop being concerned about things that have zero effect on them. "It's different from me! I don't understand it! Therefore, it's wrong."

No, it's not that! It will take dozens of pages talking about this,though. I 've been already tired even thinking of this.

Llamas
05-09-2012, 06:57 AM
No, it's not that! It will take dozens of pages talking about this,though. I 've been already tired even thinking of this.

Weren't you the one who said that divorce shouldn't even be an option? I get this pseudo-religious, high-moral vibe off you... there is no reason to be against gender transition other than religion, or just thinking it's weird and it makes you uncomfortable and you just plain old don't understand it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever. It doesn't affect anyone else, including you, it does zero harm, and if you actually sat down and really got to know a trans person, you'd see that they're just like you and me. The only difference is that you are physically the same sex as you are mentally/emotionally, while they have a conflict there. So what the heck is the big deal? I imagine you could give me a brief answer without going on for pages about it. Just an idea of what's so bad about it.

Defender
05-09-2012, 07:21 AM
Weren't you the one who said that divorce shouldn't even be an option? I get this pseudo-religious, high-moral vibe off you... there is no reason to be against gender transition other than religion, or just thinking it's weird and it makes you uncomfortable and you just plain old don't understand it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever. It doesn't affect anyone else, including you, it does zero harm, and if you actually sat down and really got to know a trans person, you'd see that they're just like you and me. The only difference is that you are physically the same sex as you are mentally/emotionally, while they have a conflict there. So what the heck is the big deal? I imagine you could give me a brief answer without going on for pages about it. Just an idea of what's so bad about it.

My english is not very good so I can't explain exactly my thoughts but you are wrong about me. There is nothing wrong with gender transition. This is a choice. Personal choice or option. I don't think this is wrong. I am against gender transition because I think the people that take this decision don't accept themselves. They don't love themselves the way they are,maybe. It's like somebody who can't face a problem and consume drugs or alcohol to feel better. Plastic surgery is another example for those who can't accept their appearance(face or whatever). As I said I don't think it's a bad decision because it's a "harmless" choice for themselves and for the others.


I get this pseudo-religious, high-moral vibe off you..

You don't know me. You say this because of what? Because I don't agree with you ? Or because we think in a different way?

bighead384
05-09-2012, 08:50 AM
How do you mentally/emotionally feel like a different gender?

Propagandhi: Refusing to be A Man: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx9UX72eMa0

Little_Miss_1565
05-09-2012, 10:07 AM
My english is not very good so I can't explain exactly my thoughts but you are wrong about me. There is nothing wrong with gender transition. This is a choice. Personal choice or option. I don't think this is wrong. I am against gender transition because I think the people that take this decision don't accept themselves. They don't love themselves the way they are,maybe. It's like somebody who can't face a problem and consume drugs or alcohol to feel better. Plastic surgery is another example for those who can't accept their appearance(face or whatever). As I said I don't think it's a bad decision because it's a "harmless" choice for themselves and for the others.

Actually, I think Laura Jane's serious decision is one that accepts her for who she is. She is a woman; her body is currently male. She's been fighting against being a woman for her entire life and she's now accepting who she is and making her outside match her inside.


I actually kind of doubt the whole thing, and that it is more a publicity stunt he is doing in order to spread awareness of people being transgenders.

And The Ocean suddenly got a whole new meaning.

This sort of thing is way too big a deal for a simple publicity stunt. She could have just made out with Kim Kardashian in public if she just wanted publicity. Coming out as transgendered opens you up to an incredible level of personal scrutiny, not to mention the risk of personal violence, and let's not forget her wife. I already thought Heather Gabel was awesome, and now I think she's even more awesome.


How do you mentally/emotionally feel like a different gender?

Not sure that's something any of us could understand, not having experienced it ourselves. I had a friend who was on all kinds of psychiatric medication, history of suicide attempts, the whole nine yards....until the day she asked us to start calling her Ryan and using male pronouns. He emerged a completely normal person, with no further use for the medications he had been taking.

Outerspaceman21
05-09-2012, 11:51 AM
Well, I doubt it'll affect their music at all... why would it? Unless you're simply talking about the timbre of his voice, which I'll comment on in a bit... but that's not gonna affect their music.

I was talking about the timbre of his/her voice. This leads me to wonder how her bandmates are taking it.

T-6005
05-09-2012, 02:12 PM
Thi, I was 100% with you until Serge Gainsbourg. I can't abide that old creep, though I appreciate his impact on music. :)
I have never been a big fan either. I just like this version of his song, a cover by two people after his death.

Geez, all I said was that people were curious about it. I didn't say a thing about anyone being disappointed or angry about it. I mean, there are so many that are still unfamiliar with the whole concept, myself included. That doesn't mean I'm some kind of asshole for asking questions.

No worries, man. I wasn't mad at you at all. Sorry if it came across that way - it's just that gender and sexuality politics have dominated a large part of my life for the last few years. I get pretty fired up about it sometimes.

Llamas
05-09-2012, 03:05 PM
My english is not very good so I can't explain exactly my thoughts but you are wrong about me. There is nothing wrong with gender transition. This is a choice. Personal choice or option. I don't think this is wrong. I am against gender transition because I think the people that take this decision don't accept themselves. They don't love themselves the way they are,maybe. It's like somebody who can't face a problem and consume drugs or alcohol to feel better. Plastic surgery is another example for those who can't accept their appearance(face or whatever). As I said I don't think it's a bad decision because it's a "harmless" choice for themselves and for the others.

I don't think you can compare these things, for a few reasons:

1) Drugs and alcohol are chemicals that temporarily alter your perception of things. They artificially mask pain. And in the meantime, they hurt your body and deteriorate your health. Transitioning doesn't hurt your body, it's not temporary, and it doesn't mask/alter your feelings and perceptions.

2) Transitioning is not just some plastic surgery to make yourself more attractive or because you think you're ugly. It is so, so much more than that.

3) It's not that they don't love themselves - people who get cosmetic surgery are not happy with the way they look. People who get a sex change are not happy because society forces them into a box. I get the feeling that maybe you connect gender and sex, when there is no connection. If you're physically born a male, but mentally, emotionally - in society - you feel like a female, to be true to yourself and accept who you are, you behave like how you feel, rather than conforming to acting how society decided (according to your physical biology) you should behave.


How do you mentally/emotionally feel like a different gender?

Response to both you and Defender here:

I can't speak for all trans people by any means, but I'll give an anecdote, from a friend/former girlfriend of mine who happens to be trans. She was born a man, and all her life, she had feminine tendencies. She liked dressing up, shaving her legs, wearing makeup, shopping, having long hair, and as a child, playing with Barbies, watching princess movies, etc. She didn't like the things boys liked, and she didn't like behaving like a boy. These things have NO connection to her physical biology. Having a penis doesn't mean that intrinsically, you feel like acting "like a boy". Now, there are tons of people (like me) who don't really behave how their gender is "supposed to", but we don't feel like we're the wrong sex. None of us can understand this part, because we've never felt it. My perception of it is that it's a much, much stronger "version" of what girls who are total tomboys feel, where it goes to a point where the person just simply does not feel like their gender matches their sex (I still feel like a girl, even though I'm not very feminine and don't behave very girlish). I see it as a spectrum - from people whose genders fit their sexes to a T (barbie girls/macho guys), to androgynous people, all the way over to people who feel their sex is the complete opposite of their gender. Hell, I'm more androgynous than the average girl, and I feel that if I acted super feminine, I wouldn't be accepting/being true to myself.

This friend of mine and I talked about this stuff a lot, and once I asked her if the operation was really necessary - why couldn't she just behave like a girl but have a man's body? She said she didn't really know how to explain it, but basically, the man's body was just a daily reminder that she wasn't "right", according to society. She said that knowing what she knows now, if she went back, maybe she wouldn't get the operation, but she felt it was necessary because society accepts physical females who act like girls, but not physical men who act like girls. In that regard, I blame society's perspective for being out of whack, and it's possible (again, can't speak for all trans people - this is just one person's story) that in the distant future, being gender queer will be so common and accepted that people won't feel the need to get operations anymore, because there will no longer be this "xx chromosomes? act like a girl. xy chromosomes? act like a boy." connection. But who knows?


You don't know me. You say this because of what? Because I don't agree with you ? Or because we think in a different way?
Nah, because you've come out and made very strong statements supporting things that the type of people I described (pseudo-religious, high-moral) often make, without any explanation (hell, you said you're "against transgender", which is pretty strong and harsh... but maybe that was a poor word choice due to a language barrier?) But I know I don't know you, and that's why I said you "seem" like it, and not that you "are".




Actually, I think Laura Jane's serious decision is one that accepts her for who she is. She is a woman; her body is currently male. She's been fighting against being a woman for her entire life and she's now accepting who she is and making her outside match her inside.
I agree.


This sort of thing is way too big a deal for a simple publicity stunt. She could have just made out with Kim Kardashian in public if she just wanted publicity. Coming out as transgendered opens you up to an incredible level of personal scrutiny, not to mention the risk of personal violence, and let's not forget her wife. I already thought Heather Gabel was awesome, and now I think she's even more awesome.
I totally agree. And if he did this for publicity, it would most likely be perceived as a slap in the face to many trans people, whether or not he was trying to support them. And hell yeah to his wife.


Not sure that's something any of us could understand, not having experienced it ourselves. I had a friend who was on all kinds of psychiatric medication, history of suicide attempts, the whole nine yards....until the day she asked us to start calling her Ryan and using male pronouns. He emerged a completely normal person, with no further use for the medications he had been taking.
Exactly. Same goes for my friend - she was suicidal until she transitioned, and now she's happy and successful.

the_real_potomek
05-09-2012, 03:16 PM
Wow, this is pretty shocking news. I've never been too interested with Against Me! but today I've even read opinions of their fans on their forums about that, and it's pretty cool that most of them is so supportive and stuff.
And I would never think that The Ocean is so serious.

Krojd
05-09-2012, 04:43 PM
It's weird.

jacknife737
05-09-2012, 05:31 PM
Really fucking admirable: good on her. When I first heard The Ocean, i i thought Gabel was incredibly brave with those lyrics: not many punk frontman would be able to talk (sing) openly about such subject matter.

Against Me! is my favorite band, and (as selfish as this sounds) I am somewhat curious to know if this process for her will have an impact on their future, but what's really important is their own personal well being: and if she sounds incredibly different, i'll always have their old records: it's silly to feel upset about this (in fact it should be celebrated).

cool 2 hate 681
05-09-2012, 06:00 PM
Hmmm, interesting. Personally, I'm not sure how to take this situation. It seems like some kind of elaborate practical joke, mostly because of how out of the ordinary it appears. If it is indeed true, then that would be kinda interesting to see how it pans out. I wonder how this would effect Against Me! and their music.

i think it might be a publicity stunt

i heard against me on the radio 2 times today last time i heard them played on the radio was 2010

Little_Miss_1565
05-09-2012, 06:48 PM
i think it might be a publicity stunt

i heard against me on the radio 2 times today last time i heard them played on the radio was 2010

There are so many easier ways to get publicity than turning your penis into a vagina and irreversibly altering the course of your life.

jacknife737
05-09-2012, 07:25 PM
In offspring related news: Pete Parada tweeted this recently (around the time of the Gabel announcement): i wonder if its related

"let all love be good love. boo to those in judgement. a heartbreaking lack of empathy. i expected and hoped for better."

Tijs
05-09-2012, 08:10 PM
There are so many easier ways to get publicity than turning your penis into a vagina and irreversibly altering the course of your life.*chop chop* already happened?

cool 2 hate 681
05-09-2012, 08:32 PM
In offspring related news: Pete Parada tweeted this recently (around the time of the Gabel announcement): i wonder if its related

"let all love be good love. boo to those in judgement. a heartbreaking lack of empathy. i expected and hoped for better."

im pretty sure that was about the north carolina vote last night

Little_Miss_1565
05-09-2012, 08:44 PM
*chop chop* already happened?

Don't think it's happened yet, but with all the publicity...if I were her, I'd feel like I had to go through with it.

Tijs
05-09-2012, 08:56 PM
Yeah this is definitely one of those "I said I was gonna so do it, so I'd better go through with it it"-kinda thing.

I can imagine it being a publicity stunt though, it seems to work really well, I'm reading and hearing everywhere about it. Before that, the only time I would ever hear about Against Me! is the "Other Bands" section or an occasional play in my big ass Winamp playlist while on shuffle.

I think this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvWeP18RpmM) has tripled its views in the past few days, while it's been up for nearly 4 years. (A great performance though, must say that.)

I highly doubt that it's a publicity stunt, he's definitely going for (losing) it. But if it were one, it's working incredibly well. That's why I wouldn't want to completely rule it out.

ThunderPX
05-10-2012, 07:50 AM
I'm pretty sure she'd be 100% sure about it before announcing it to the world, but that's just me.

Re: voice stuff; it's possible to have surgery to make your voice more feminine, but it's risky and can make your voice disappear altogether. It's also possible to train your voice to sound a lot more feminine (women use their vocal cords in a different way to men, iirc), but I think that's a lot harder to do if you're trying to sing at the same time.

findout5
05-10-2012, 08:01 AM
I just read this today...am I the only one who thought that it's gonna be weird living with his wife? Like, in a penis-free household? Will his/her wife get a boyfriend? Damn...this is weird, but thumbs up for the guts to do it!

PS- Tijs, what did you mean, "Davey Havoc and all"?
Fill me in please.

0r4ng3
05-10-2012, 08:16 AM
PS- Tijs, what did you mean, "Davey Havoc and all"?
Fill me in please.
Davey Havok spent most of the early-to-mid 2000s looking rather...feminine. Tijs was making a joke about that.

findout5
05-10-2012, 08:21 AM
Damn, that's OK then lol
For a minute I thought there were news he was gonna chop his thing of.

Little_Miss_1565
05-10-2012, 08:32 AM
I just read this today...am I the only one who thought that it's gonna be weird living with his wife? Like, in a penis-free household? Will his/her wife get a boyfriend? Damn...this is weird, but thumbs up for the guts to do it!

Reading the article again, it sounds like she's going to consider the surgery but may not go through with it. A lot of transgendered people don't get the genital reassignment surgery...so many risks (Hedwig, anyone?).

Whatever happens, I'm sure she's discussed it with her wife at great length before going public with it, and if she says she's cool and they're staying together, they've come up with a situation that makes them both happy.

bighead384
05-10-2012, 12:30 PM
So even though Tom Gabel still has a penis, we say "she" when referring to him? Interesting.

Against Me! sold out just so Tom Gabel could afford a vagina lololol

Little_Miss_1565
05-10-2012, 12:45 PM
So even though Tom Gabel still has a penis, we say "she" when referring to him? Interesting.

I can understand how it's confusing. Someone's sex (like on their driver's license) is determined by what's between their legs - transgendered people can't have the M on their driver's license or birth certificate changed to an F until getting the vaginoplasty. However, someone's gender is determined by what's between their ears. By announcing her transition and by self-identifying as female, female pronouns are appropriate.

Llamas
05-10-2012, 01:54 PM
I just read this today...am I the only one who thought that it's gonna be weird living with his wife? Like, in a penis-free household?
Umm, same way lesbian couples live together. And same way single mothers live with their daughters. Contrary to what many men would like to believe, penises are not necessary in any way for a household ;)


Will his/her wife get a boyfriend?
I think that when you're really, truly in love with someone, a sex operation isn't going to change that. I'm sure Heather has known for a long time, too, that Tom/Laura has been struggling with this - I doubt he just sprang it on her a few days ago :P

From what I understand, the transition is the hardest part of all of it. In a few years, they'll probably have a happier household than they do now. But the transition time will be very trying for both of them.


So even though Tom Gabel still has a penis, we say "she" when referring to him? Interesting.
Trans people who never get the operation go by the pronouns that they identify with, too. Again, this is about sex vs. gender. Tom/Laura's sex is still male, but her gender is female. So we use the feminine pronoun.


Against Me! sold out just so Tom Gabel could afford a vagina lololol
Haha, this made me smile. I totally imagined this conversation:
"Hey guys, I think we should take the deal and go mainstream."
"WHAT?? No way! Our fans will hate us!!"
"Yeah, but I really want a vagina..."
"Hmm, well yeah, if we go mainstream we'll be getting pussy galore..."
"No... I mean... I want to have my OWN vagina. Between my legs. Instead of my penis. And I just can't afford it playing to these small crowds..."
"Ah, okay, well just make sure you stop, take some time to think before you make this serious decision, Laura."

mrconeman
05-10-2012, 02:40 PM
You guys need to stop, take some time to think, and figure out what's important to you.

What really matters is this - will she be hot?
we have to make a serious decision when alterations have been made.

RageAndLov
05-10-2012, 03:17 PM
From Fat Mike's twitter:

"It makes sense now why Against Me called me last week and asked if they could cover My Vagina."

"Oh, and Fat Wreck will be releasing a special edition of Against Me as the Maternal Cowgirl sometime next spring! :)"

EDIT: Oh and here is an interview of the guy interviewing Tom:
http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/68863697.html?view=11960222929#t11960222929

Llamas
05-10-2012, 04:02 PM
"It makes sense now why Against Me called me last week and asked if they could cover My Vagina."

If he'd said that instead of writing it (aka there'd be no capitalization), it'd sound like Fat Mike also has a vagina. That would be weird if Against Me wanted to cover Fat Mike's vagina.

jacknife737
05-10-2012, 04:20 PM
"But she says that she has every intention to carry on fronting the band, saying: "However fierce our band was in the past, imagine me, six-foot-two, in heels, f---ing screaming into someone's face."

Fucking right.

Little_Miss_1565
05-10-2012, 04:31 PM
...though I wish she had said "screaming right in their fucking faaaaace," I wholeheartedly agree.

cool 2 hate 681
05-10-2012, 04:50 PM
"Oh, and Fat Wreck will be releasing a special edition of Against Me as the Maternal Cowgirl sometime next spring! :)"

just like fat mike re releasing stuff over and over again for money :p

Tijs
05-10-2012, 04:54 PM
I can understand how it's confusing. Someone's sex (like on their driver's license) is determined by what's between their legs - transgendered people can't have the M on their driver's license or birth certificate changed to an F until getting the vaginoplasty. However, someone's gender is determined by what's between their ears. By announcing her transition and by self-identifying as female, female pronouns are appropriate.All that may be true, but as Tom says himself, eventually he will take the name Laura. So until that time, he's still a he.

Isolated Fury
05-10-2012, 08:22 PM
This is really a dead a dumb issue of you ask me. Who cares. Not going to sleep with himher, so what's the big deal. Make your weewee a hoohoo. Go for it. All it's going to affect
Me
Is making
Me want to vomit. Big deal. Leave
The thing alone.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
05-10-2012, 09:21 PM
I guess you could say he stopped, took some time to think, and figured out what's important to her. WERK, GIRL.
I can't figure out how to properly arrange the right words into a sentence to respond to this, but I feel that I should.

Fat Mike's tweets are suddenly making so much more sense.

EDIT: I didn't realize that this had more than one page until I posted. I'll read the rest of the thread tomorrow.

T-6005
05-10-2012, 09:38 PM
Once I was a man
Now not, and all you wonder
Is will the dick stay?

Degstur Lolland
05-10-2012, 09:59 PM
Once I had a strap-on
Now not, and all you wonder
That the voice will stay

Llamas
05-11-2012, 06:58 AM
This is really a dead a dumb issue of you ask me. Who cares. Not going to sleep with himher, so what's the big deal. Make your weewee a hoohoo. Go for it. All it's going to affect
Me
Is making
Me want to vomit. Big deal. Leave
The thing alone.

If you're not gonna sleep with her, then why does it make you wanna vomit? That's dumb.

And it's not a dumb issue, because there are almost no well-known or famous (she's not ultra famous, but enough) who are trans - having a well-known figure to relate to helps minorities a lot. It's similar to how blacks felt when Obama was elected, or how lesbians felt when Ellen came out. The singer of Against Me isn't anyone compared to Ellen or especially Obama, but it's still a step. The only trans person I can think of who is known is Chastity Bono, who's really only known because of his parents and because he's trans. Trans people will now have someone successful and talented representing them. It's definitely a big deal for anyone who is on the side of equality.

Isolated Fury
05-11-2012, 07:13 AM
If you're not gonna sleep with her, then why does it make you wanna vomit? That's dumb.
At the time, imagining the surgical process by which it would happen kind of made my stomach turn. I can't watch surgery shows on TLC or anything as it is, so drunkenly picturing it wasn't helping much. I still don't really care. Make your wee-wee a hoo-hoo. To each his own. I'm sticking with my wee-wee.

Llamas
05-11-2012, 07:26 AM
At the time, imagining the surgical process by which it would happen kind of made my stomach turn. I can't watch surgery shows on TLC or anything as it is, so drunkenly picturing it wasn't helping much. I still don't really care. Make your wee-wee a hoo-hoo. To each his own. I'm sticking with my wee-wee.

Haha, gotcha. Yeah I'm guessing nobody really wants to imagine that surgery. I dunno how the doctors do it, honestly.

You keep your wee wee. I like my hoo hoo very much. Wee wees are gross :( ;)

Actually if I were to be born again, I'd be a guy for exactly one reason: no periods. Seriously. That is it. And I don't think transitioning helps that, cause otherwise I probably would've considered at one point. Hoo hoos are cool, but they'd be even cooler if they didn't bleed once a month. Periods suck.

Oh, and there's also the fact that there are more (and more good/interesting/intelligent) straight girls out there than lesbians. Bigger pool. Yep. In my next life, I'm coming back as a man.

jacknife737
05-12-2012, 03:29 PM
The new album is apparently a concept record about a transgendered prostitute:

"Transgendered Dysphoria Blues" - really solid song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMh4DclBNJg

Anyone else read the rolling stone article? it was pretty well written: the parts about him "coming out" to his wife and bandmates was particularly fascinating.

RageAndLov
05-12-2012, 04:30 PM
The new album is apparently a concept record about a transgendered prostitute:

"Transgendered Dysphoria Blues" - really solid song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMh4DclBNJg

Anyone else read the rolling stone article? it was pretty well written: the parts about him "coming out" to his wife and bandmates was particularly fascinating.

No. You've got a link to the full interview? I really want to read the feature.

bighead384
05-12-2012, 07:15 PM
I'm trying to think of a catchy name for the sub genre of punk music performed by transgendered people...

coke_a_holic
05-12-2012, 07:39 PM
I'm gonna start a band just to join in while the getting's good: Tranz Ferdinand

bighead384
05-12-2012, 07:43 PM
My favorite AFI song is the last one off the newest album. End TRANSmission.

http://www.metrolyrics.com/end-transmission-lyrics-afi.html

Lizardus
05-12-2012, 08:15 PM
RIP Joanne Ramona from the Ramonas.

Little_Miss_1565
05-13-2012, 01:25 AM
I'm gonna start a band just to join in while the getting's good: Tranz Ferdinand

Beats the hell out of ska band names for sure.

jacknife737
05-13-2012, 09:10 AM
No. You've got a link to the full interview? I really want to read the feature.

Scanned images of the the article are posted in the first couple pages of this thread:
http://www.againstmeforum.net/t4885-new-may-2012-interview-on-rolling-stone-magazine

Omni
05-13-2012, 11:15 AM
I'm gonna start a band just to join in while the getting's good: Tranz Ferdinand

The Tranberries?
The Tranny Warhols?
Dragwagon?
Tranny Kravitz?
Ivy's Operation?

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
05-13-2012, 02:54 PM
Ivy's Operation?
I'd give you a medal for that one.

mario_spaghettio
05-13-2012, 04:47 PM
This Tom dude sounds like he has some serious mental health issues. Hopefully they make him seek psychiatric treatment before he gets any sort of hormone treatment. Also, what he's doing is incredibly selfish considering he has a wife and kid. Even if his wife says she supports him, his kid is going to be traumatized by his actions.

mario_spaghettio
05-13-2012, 04:50 PM
So if I self identify as African American do I qualify for Affirmative Action? Do you liberals even realize how fucked up you are?

Little_Miss_1565
05-13-2012, 05:24 PM
No, but transgendered people are a protected group. Maybe you should try being transgendered, and then you'll get invited to all the parties that people who aren't white straight males get to go to. They're all funded by the government, and the caterer is always amazing.

Llamas
05-13-2012, 05:37 PM
This Tom dude sounds like he has some serious mental health issues. Hopefully they make him seek psychiatric treatment before he gets any sort of hormone treatment. Also, what he's doing is incredibly selfish considering he has a wife and kid. Even if his wife says she supports him, his kid is going to be traumatized by his actions.
For real. I mean, that poor kid is gonna grow up understanding that gender isn't a binary thing! They're not gonna be freaked out when they meet a gay person at school!

A personal story I read last month:

"I’ve been forced to explain homosexuality to my kids (aged 3 and 4) because their uncle is gay. This incredibly difficult and traumatic experience went as follows:

Child: Why does Uncle Bob go everywhere with Pete?
Me: Because they’re in love, just like Mummy and Daddy are.
Child: Oh. Can I have a biscuit?

We’re all scarred for life. Scarred, I tell you."


No, but transgendered people are a protected group. Maybe you should try being transgendered, and then you'll get invited to all the parties that people who aren't white straight males get to go to. They're all funded by the government, and the caterer is always amazing.
For real. The parties for us non-white, non-male, and/or non-straight freaks are seriously the best part of having Obama in office. I totally get why mario is jealous. Were you at the last one? I was a big fan of the free helicopter rides, and the part where we got to swim in the pool of American tax dollars - I felt like Scrooge McDuck. I myself had 3 portions of the sevruga caviar and 5 dl of Chateau Lafite! I should remember to thank Obama next time I stop by to pick up my welfare check.

mario_spaghettio
05-13-2012, 07:56 PM
The straight white male is a sleeping giant right now in America. When he wakens I suggest you all run like hell.

Isolated Fury
05-13-2012, 08:09 PM
Cthulhu is a sleeping giant right now in the ocean. When he wakens I suggest you all run like hell.

Little_Miss_1565
05-13-2012, 08:14 PM
Cthulhu is a sleeping giant right now in the ocean. When he wakens I suggest you all run like hell.

"God damn it you guys, which one of you released the Kraken?"

RageAndLov
05-14-2012, 02:25 PM
Scanned images of the the article are posted in the first couple pages of this thread:
http://www.againstmeforum.net/t4885-new-may-2012-interview-on-rolling-stone-magazine

Yeah I saw that one, but the pictures are too small, so I have trouble reading the article.

TheNooseIsFalling
06-20-2012, 10:26 AM
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/online_downloads/first_interview_with_laura_jane_grace_as_a_woman.h tml
I get the Laure Jane, but why is she Grace now instead of Gabel? Also, where's her wife in all this?

Little_Miss_1565
06-20-2012, 11:15 AM
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/online_downloads/first_interview_with_laura_jane_grace_as_a_woman.h tml
I get the Laure Jane, but why is she Grace now instead of Gabel? Also, where's her wife in all this?

Don't know why Grace not Gabel, but her wife has been on the road with her as usual according to her Twitter account.

RageAndLov
06-22-2012, 10:51 AM
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/online_downloads/first_interview_with_laura_jane_grace_as_a_woman.h tml
I get the Laure Jane, but why is she Grace now instead of Gabel? Also, where's her wife in all this?

Grace is her mother's maiden name, and she has had a falling out with her father, but she is very close to her mother.

Full interview is now available on Rolling Stone's website (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-secret-life-of-transgender-rocker-tom-gabel-20120531)

0r4ng3
06-22-2012, 11:18 AM
That does make sense. For a while I thought she had given herself two middle names and was going by Laura Jane Grace Gabel. I think I did see a couple of articles referring to her by that name.

Degstur Lolland
06-22-2012, 05:15 PM
Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace.

0r4ng3
06-22-2012, 10:29 PM
Rise and Time To Think, Rage and Serious Decision.

dexter12296566
06-25-2012, 03:01 PM
It honestly makes me very happy to see that his(her?) wife is staying married though.

Little_Miss_1565
06-25-2012, 04:53 PM
Rise and Time To Think, Rage and Serious Decision.

Post of the year.

cool 2 hate 681
12-24-2012, 11:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xqvQOvE0vA

RageAndLov
12-25-2012, 09:28 AM
Goddamn The Vandals are terrible.

Here is a more related video:
http://www.mtv.com/videos/shows/house-of-style/867081/house-of-style-ep-12-laura-jane-grace.jhtml#id=1699224

It's about Laura's new lifestyle as a trans. She never appeared to me as feminine when she was male, but I feel she is going over the top to be as feminine as possible here. I can understand that she wants to "max" her feeling of being female by appearing like that, but it feels awkward.

Llamas
12-25-2012, 09:42 AM
Goddamn The Vandals are terrible.

I used to enjoy them in college... dumb humor (Get a Room and My Girlfriend's Dead are pretty fun). But I never liked the song cool2hate posted. Very transphobic.


It's about Laura's new lifestyle as a trans. She never appeared to me as feminine when she was male, but I feel she is going over the top to be as feminine as possible here. I can understand that she wants to "max" her feeling of being female by appearing like that, but it feels awkward.

I find this to be a common thread with trans folks, and I can't say I understand it - probably because I'm cisgender and it's unrelatable. Personally, I'm less feminine than most women, even most of my friends, though I still am more feminine than masculine (definitely not androgynous). I find both extreme masculinity and femininity to be obnoxious and ridiculous, and it's even odder to me when someone who's dealing with gender dysphoria jumps to the extreme of their inner gender. I guess it's probably a result of feeling trapped inside the wrong body for so long, that when they finally get to escape, they embrace the opposite entirely. Maybe kinda like how I was raised Christian and under all those rules and such, and when I finally reached adulthood and got to be myself, I became super atheist for a spell before realizing what I actually believed.

Thanks for sharing the link, too.