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View Full Version : Would The Offspring support Napster in 2012?



findout5
06-25-2012, 08:37 AM
Well, what do you think?

Back in 99 they did. Pretty Fly was the most pirated song up to that point, and they said it didn't harm record sales...au contraire.
With CO1 the band and Columbia got into a huge dispute about sharing the whole record for free. They reached the compromise where Original Prankster was downloadable and one US fan would win 1 million dollars.
Nowadays they seem to make a lot of jokes about wishing this is their most stolen / pirated record, etc....and considering the way downloads changes the music industry I do get the why of the sarcasm.

So...would The Offspring support Napster in 2012?
What's YOUR take on it?

TheNooseIsFalling
06-25-2012, 08:45 AM
I think they look at illegal downloading the best way a succesful musician can and they don't give a flying fuck about it. Even without record sales, if there's enough hype around an album or a song, the band will continue to be succesful. Fans (like myself) who support the band will continue to buy their records, and as evidenced by the sales of YGGF,K, a lot of people still buy music legally. The whole piracy thing, I think, is really only bad for up and coming artist who have it hard enough already these days, there's nothing more despicable than a millionaire whining about "their music being stolen" LARS and suing their own fans.

Llamas
06-25-2012, 09:32 AM
If you mean, do they still support illegal downloading, unlikely. Even the most hippie liberal bands and singers don't like it. Recording concerts is one thing, but people downloading music for free instead of buying it is another. It has hurt the musicians. I don't know any musicians who support illegal downloading as an alternative to buying music.

JohnnyNemesis
06-25-2012, 09:58 AM
Speaking generally, I pretty much expect people's views on various things to change when 13 years have passed, so it's certainly not a safe assumption to think they support something like illegal downloading. And yes, the music industry has changed to the point where it seems like album sales are more important in some ways than they were before.

GamerKT
06-25-2012, 10:04 AM
If you mean, do they still support illegal downloading, unlikely. Even the most hippie liberal bands and singers don't like it. Recording concerts is one thing, but people downloading music for free instead of buying it is another. It has hurt the musicians. I don't know any musicians who support illegal downloading as an alternative to buying music.

You're probably right about them not liking it, but it doesn't hurt bands as much as you think. I mean, not famous ones like The Offspring. Most bands make their money off merchandise and tours.

Like, this album is $12 for me. $12 every three-ish years from tens of thousands of people? Okay.
Concerts are what? $40 or higher? $40+ for many nights of the year from thousands. <--This is way better. Also, plus shirts.

Pirating hurts indie artists, definitely, but huge ones like The Offspring aren't hurt too much at all, especially when they also have a hot sauce empire. :p

Can't wait for this album to be delivered tomorrow.

_Lost_
06-25-2012, 10:07 AM
If they were to have the "most pirated album ever", they would probably also have one of the top selling albums, because people clearly want to listen to it. Nobody wants all their music to be stolen, because they don't make money. But if a lot of people steal it and like it, a lot of people will probably buy it too. If their album is listened to by more people, they sell more concert tickets and merchandise. While they certainly wouldn't want everyone to steal their album, they want everyone to hear it. Its kind of a catch 22.

Llamas
06-25-2012, 10:09 AM
Speaking generally, I pretty much expect people's views on various things to change when 13 years have passed

This. If anyone still holds exactly the same views they held 13 years ago (unless they're like 80), I don't want to know them.


You're probably right about them not liking it, but it doesn't hurt bands as much as you think. I mean, not famous ones like The Offspring. Most bands make their money off merchandise and tours.

Like, this album is $12 for me. $12 every three-ish years from tens of thousands of people? Okay.
Concerts are what? $40 or higher? $40+ for many nights of the year from thousands. <--This is way better. Also, plus shirts.

Pirating hurts indie artists, definitely, but huge ones like The Offspring aren't hurt too much at all, especially when they also have a hot sauce empire. :p

Can't wait for this album to be delivered tomorrow.

It's true. Bands don't make a ton of money from their album sales. However, album sales pay the label, and then the label pays the band. If an album doesn't sell enough, a label may choose to drop a band. Because album sales have decreased so much, labels are limiting the number of bands they sign, and going for people like Bieber and Gaga whose audiences are less internet-savvy and are more likely to buy albums.

Britpunk
06-25-2012, 11:52 AM
When Napster happened, it was fairly difficult to purchase music digitally, and CDs were relatively expensive (a new album would routinely cost 14GBP, upto 18-20GBP for a back-catalogue album). iTunes wasn't launched until 2001 and when it did it was crippled by portability issues thanks to their shitty DRM. So while the music industry was utterly failing to recognise the shift on the horizon and react accordingly, systems like Naptser, and later Limewire and then Torrents were making music incredibly easy to obtain. Of course most of us were on dialup in '98, so you'd need to set aside a good few hours to download an entire album, but the means were there.

For a while, Pretty Fly held the record of the most pirated single (it may still do, but I'd be interested to see recent figures if anybody knows a source), and yet Americana went on to sell over 10m worldwide (~15m?).

So here was a technology that was effectively promoting the band and ended up giving them their 2nd best selling album.

Today iTunes (sans DRM!), Amazon et al offer an incredibly easy, and relatively cheap way to provide access to music (what other industry has seen the cost of its 'product' halved in the last 10 years?). Broadband is ubiquitous so an album can be bought and downloaded in minutes.

And yet the music industry landscape today is very different. Album sales are declining. 'Singles' (i.e. a song with 1 or more b-sides) are devalued and band-loyalty is pretty broken. Youtube and Spotify allow you to listen to whatever the hell you want for nothing, and of course as we recently saw, torrents can provide access to music before it is even released.

So frankly I don't see why any band, having spent a fair bit of money, time, and effort creating an intellectual entity, would be in any way happy for that intellectual entity shared around for nothing, particularly when its so damned easy to just buy the thing.

In conclusion - I don't pirate. I like to pay the band (and whatever distribution mechanism has enabled me to do so) for their art. In fact today I went and did that (UK release date Jun 25!!) and I have a lovely physical thing in my hand that I very much like and will enjoy for years to come.


TL;DR - piracy is retarded.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
06-25-2012, 12:54 PM
I have pirated quite a few albums, and over the next few years, I plan to buy them all to make up for it. I don't have like $400 to spare right now or anything, so it'll be a process.

Llamas
06-25-2012, 01:09 PM
I have pirated quite a few albums, and over the next few years, I plan to buy them all to make up for it. I don't have like $400 to spare right now or anything, so it'll be a process.

This is where I'm at, basically. I'd buy every album I love if I wasn't so broke and could find the albums I want here. I've pirated albums in the meantime, but I plan on buying them, as well. It's important to me to support the bands I like, and to own something physical.

Britpunk
06-25-2012, 01:15 PM
This is where I'm at, basically. I'd buy every album I love if I wasn't so broke and could find the albums I want here. I've pirated albums in the meantime, but I plan on buying them, as well. It's important to me to support the bands I like, and to own something physical.

See I sort of get where you're coming from, but I'm basically of the mind where 'if you can't afford something, you cannot have it until you can afford it.

For example, My next payday I'll be buying The Agonist - Prisoners, and Assemblage 23 - Bruise. Both came out earlier this month, but this month has been lean and I made sure I'd have enough cash to buy DGB. Now I could have downloaded them on the basis that 'I'm gonna buy them anyway', but the problem with that mindset is that it's too easy not to follow through.

Obviously I have no idea about yours or KHWHD's purchasing practices and I don't assume that you won't follow through. I'm just expressing the reason why I don't do that.

Llamas
06-25-2012, 01:17 PM
See I sort of get where you're coming from, but I'm basically of the mind where 'if you can't afford something, you cannot have it until you can afford it.

For example, My next payday I'll be buying The Agonist - Prisoners, and Assemblage 23 - Bruise. Both came out earlier this month, but this month has been lean and I made sure I'd have enough cash to buy DGB. Now I could have downloaded them on the basis that 'I'm gonna buy them anyway', but the problem with that mindset is that it's too easy not to follow through.

Obviously I have no idea about yours or KHWHD's purchasing practices and I don't assume that you won't follow through. I'm just expressing the reason why I don't do that.

And I get your point, but I'm not hurting the bands by pirating them until I can buy them. If I didn't buy them at all, that would be hurting the bands. I won't be spending any more money on their music if I don't pirate it for now.

Also, I've bought somewhere between 250 and 300 CDs in my life, if that tells you anything.

Edit: I got screwed over this year by my current boss. Things should be better in the autumn, but it'll be months before I can afford to buy any albums. And since I'll be buying it when I can anyway, I don't wish to wait months to hear the album when I have the possibility to hear it.

Britpunk
06-25-2012, 01:25 PM
And I get your point, but I'm not hurting the bands by pirating them until I can buy them. If I didn't buy them at all, that would be hurting the bands. I won't be spending any more money on their music if I don't pirate it for now.

Also, I've bought somewhere between 250 and 300 CDs in my life, if that tells you anything.

Edit: I got screwed over this year by my current boss. Things should be better in the autumn, but it'll be months before I can afford to buy any albums. And since I'll be buying it when I can anyway, I don't wish to wait months to hear the album when I have the possibility to hear it.

No worries. I'm not judging you.

I just think the music industry as a whole is pretty sick at the moment, and music is a huge part of my life and I don't want to end up in a situation where the bands I'd like to listen to no longer find a music career viable. I think the only ways for that doomsday scenario not to occur is by supporting the artists by buying their stuff, and by not legitimising the piracy industry by making use of it.

If I want to listen to an artist before I buy their stuff, I'll basically use Youtube - preferably their official channel where one exists.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
06-25-2012, 01:33 PM
See I sort of get where you're coming from, but I'm basically of the mind where 'if you can't afford something, you cannot have it until you can afford it.

That's a great mindset to have. I ended up pirating a bunch of albums because I discovered a lot of new music over the past couple years. I'm not justifying it, that's just my reason. I quickly discovered a ton of albums I enjoyed front to back. I plan to buy physical copies now, partially because digital copies are lame, and partially because I want to make it up to the bands and labels.

Britpunk
06-25-2012, 01:44 PM
That's a great mindset to have. I ended up pirating a bunch of albums because I discovered a lot of new music over the past couple years. I'm not justifying it, that's just my reason. I quickly discovered a ton of albums I enjoyed front to back. I plan to buy physical copies now, partially because digital copies are lame, and partially because I want to make it up to the bands and labels.

Thank you. Just to add I'd much rather people 'pay later' than not pay at all. I'm not trying to moralize or judge anybody - just wanted to express how I feel about the whole piracy thing and why I feel that way. That's probably enough from me now on the subject! ;)

Llamas
06-25-2012, 01:44 PM
I just think the music industry as a whole is pretty sick at the moment, and music is a huge part of my life and I don't want to end up in a situation where the bands I'd like to listen to no longer find a music career viable. I think the only ways for that doomsday scenario not to occur is by supporting the artists by buying their stuff, and by not legitimising the piracy industry by making use of it.

I agree, though. People who just pirate and never buy anything drive me nuts. But it's partially the recording industry's fault this has happened to the extent it has. People who aren't signed to major labels sell their albums for $10 each, and get to keep a huge chunk of that. Mainstream bands' albums go for like $15-20, and they keep a very small percentage of that.

Britpunk
06-25-2012, 01:46 PM
I agree, though. People who just pirate and never buy anything drive me nuts. But it's partially the recording industry's fault this has happened to the extent it has. People who aren't signed to major labels sell their albums for $10 each, and get to keep a huge chunk of that. Mainstream bands' albums go for like $15-20, and they keep a very small percentage of that.

Agreed. A lot of this hole the industry is in is self-inflicted.

Little_Miss_1565
06-25-2012, 04:49 PM
Generally, when it comes to stuff like this or stuff like anything having to do with the band, I feel like people pick and choose things from the band's decades of existence that match up with their worldview. I mean, Americana was 13 years ago, as it's already been pointed out, and was pointed out during RAFRAG and Americana was just 10 years old. But it never seems to hit home with a lot of people that the industry has changed radically since I even started working in it, and that was 5 or 6 years ago. And it's changed radically in the last 2 or 3 years, too. Anyone who is still clinging to ideas that were interesting 10+ years ago in this industry (such as leaking your own album) may as well just start walking around naked in public, because it's about as crazy. Nevermind how the Offspring/Napster thing started out as a joke because they were pirating the Napster logo and selling merch of it, except it was probably too subtle because jokes resulting in Cease and Desist letters are well, it's probably self-explanatory.

David Lowery of Cracker wrote a very lengthy piece aimed at an NPR staffer who blogged about never buying music and not seeing the point of it. People tend to go around in circles when discussing file sharing, but I thought this particular excerpt from it was pretty interesting.



The existential questions that your generation gets to answer are these:

Why do we value the network and hardware that delivers music but not the music itself?

Why are we willing to pay for computers, iPods, smartphones, data plans, and high speed internet access but not the music itself?

Why do we gladly give our money to some of the largest richest corporations in the world but not the companies and individuals who create and sell music?

This is a bit of hyperbole to emphasize the point. But itís as if:

Networks: Giant mega corporations. Cool! have some money!

Hardware: Giant mega corporations. Cool! have some money!

Artists: 99.9 % lower middle class. Screw you, you greedy bastards!

Congratulations, your generation is the first generation in history to rebel by unsticking it to the man and instead sticking it to the weirdo freak musicians!

I am genuinely stunned by this. Since you appear to love first generation Indie Rock, and as a founding member of a first generation Indie Rock band I am now legally obligated to issue this order: kids, lawn, vacate.

You are doing it wrong.

If you want to read the entire letter: http://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/letter-to-emily-white-at-npr-all-songs-considered/

XYlophonetreeZ
06-25-2012, 04:55 PM
Did you see Travis Morrison's response to that letter on Huffpost? To me, it was more of an attack on the way the Cracker guy said things than what he said, and it failed to acknowledge the ways that piracy has hurt larger musical acts. He had a good point about it not being a fully generational thing, but he kind of made too big a deal out of making that point, IMO.

Britpunk
06-25-2012, 04:58 PM
A whole lot of awesome

Thank you.

Edit - Just finished reading the blogpost LM linked to. I would urge everybody to do the same.

jacknife737
06-25-2012, 05:09 PM
I would really doubt it.

The music industry/file sharing in 2012 is on a whole other planet than what they were like in 2000. I would imagine Dexter's experience of trying to run a small indie label during this period would especially sour his views towards it.