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WebDudette
09-24-2012, 07:11 AM
I've found that this is quite a polarizing topic. @When I see this debated online, it's typically split right down the middle.

In the restaurant business we often have people come in at 9:45 or even much earlier and stay until 11:30 or later (we close at 10). My coworkers often get very upset about this kind of thing.

Who would you say is in the wrong. The employee who thinks they're entitled to go home once the restaurant 'closes', or the customer who thinks they're entitled to service well after the restaurant has closed?

bighead384
09-24-2012, 07:42 AM
Clearly another issue of black people and public etiquette.

I think there are a lot of situations where society has established a code of conduct that takes precedence over an establishment's policy. Can't think of any though...hope that doesn't undermine my argument, lol.

Jojan
09-24-2012, 07:47 AM
I do not think that the employee should stop working just because the restaurant closes. But the customers should be notified if it is near the closing time, and noticed when it is time to close.

You can stop serving after nine, let the customers know that you close at ten and they will have to leave by then. For example.

Tijs
09-24-2012, 07:50 AM
Doesn't is usually go like "Alright guys, last round!" and then 30 minutes laters turn on all the lights stop the music, clean the tables, put the chairs on the tables, etc.. the whole clean-up/closing things you do every night at a bar/restaurant. Anyone not getting he/she is supposed to leave, can be clearly told they will have to leave, right?

XYlophonetreeZ
09-24-2012, 07:55 AM
Clearly another issue of black people and public etiquette.

Do you just lurk here constantly and wait for opportunities to bring that up?


Anyway, one situation is a matter of rules, and the other is a matter of manners. Dennis Farina explains a similar ethical debate perfectly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu_cYrDFU18


Restaurants should pay employees more for any time for which they weren't scheduled. What Jojan said is reasonable as well. Restaurants should delineate three times clearly and transparently: the time the kitchen closes, the time the dining room closes, and the time the employees should expect to go home (after they're done cleaning up).

Tiny Vessels
09-24-2012, 08:05 AM
As a waitress that is one thing that pisses me off is when people come in at the last minute, especially the regulars who that. Everyone has to stay later and sometimes the kitchen already has ran out of something and then you tell the customer and then they get upset with you about it. Then you have to wait around for them to pay their bill so you can close your till, and then you have the dishwasher bitching cause they want to leave. Everyone has to stay pretty much, not just you.

Where I work on saturdays and sundays after breakfast most of the time we have parties that come in and some of them like to decorate early and it really sucks when you a table/s just sitting there still. My customers just don't care and it is frusterating and then you tell they need to they have to be gone at closing time becauase we have a party coming in they still won't leave.

You just can't win.

MOTO13
09-24-2012, 08:09 AM
The restaurant business is one area where hourly employees probably get screwed. I would like to know one other business where your hours are so undefined. Store coses at 9pm, employees leave at....9pm. Factory shift is from 7-3:30, people leave at...3:30. Restaurant closes at 10pm, employees leave...hell if I know. One thing for sure, I think it is incredibly fucked up that ANYONE would hang around a restaurant an hour after it closes. You pull that shit, you damn well better open up your wallet and tip graciously. Cause you are either retarded, or a self centered son of a bitch.

Little_Miss_1565
09-24-2012, 12:16 PM
Who would you say is in the wrong. The employee who thinks they're entitled to go home once the restaurant 'closes', or the customer who thinks they're entitled to service well after the restaurant has closed?

Definitely the customers. I've worked in bars but not restaurants, and after last call, everyone is asked to leave. At that point, it's the bartender's discretion who's allowed to stick around after hours. As a customer, I've closed down bars at 4 AM (NYC closing time) and I've closed down bars at 7 AM just hanging out with friends who bartend. And I tip like a motherfucker in those instances.


Clearly another issue of black people and public etiquette.

I think there are a lot of situations where society has established a code of conduct that takes precedence over an establishment's policy. Can't think of any though...hope that doesn't undermine my argument, lol.

Obvious troll is obvious.


The restaurant business is one area where hourly employees probably get screwed. I would like to know one other business where your hours are so undefined. Store coses at 9pm, employees leave at....9pm. Factory shift is from 7-3:30, people leave at...3:30. Restaurant closes at 10pm, employees leave...hell if I know. One thing for sure, I think it is incredibly fucked up that ANYONE would hang around a restaurant an hour after it closes. You pull that shit, you damn well better open up your wallet and tip graciously. Cause you are either retarded, or a self centered son of a bitch.

For real. I don't understand why people think it's okay to fuck around in a restaurant, and they know they'd never be able to do that in a bar. I don't think it should be considered rude for someone to say "Hey, sorry to bother you but I need to close my till because we close in 5 minutes, here's your check." Or, close the kitchen 30 minutes before the doors close on the restaurant. The bar I worked at had a small kitchen that closed at midnight when the bar closed at 4 AM. While customers who think they're just entitled to shit are definitely a problem, it's a bigger problem in my opinion that restaurant managers don't set things up that allow their staff to get out not long after closing time. Stop taking orders 30 minutes before closing, and herd people out when you're closed. Only giant assholes get snippy when it's past posted closing hours and you say "Hey, sorry but we're closed now."

Llamas
09-24-2012, 02:20 PM
My serving experience was at a 24-hour Perkins in Minnesota, so I can't really relate to this. In Slovenia, though, they will come to your table and tell you it's time to pay and go cause they're closing. It's complete bullshit that that doesn't happen in the US. Of course the owner/GM isn't there anymore, so they don't give a fuck how late their employees have to stay, making minimum wage or less.

bighead384
09-24-2012, 06:25 PM
Talking etiquette with some of you is a real trip since you present yourself as people who are without any sort of personality flaws or eccentricities that could actually be the source of shame.

Little_Miss_1565
09-24-2012, 08:58 PM
Except for how you're not talking etiquette with us because you just dropped in to parrot the same racist trollbait because you have nothing of substance to say?

bighead384
09-24-2012, 09:40 PM
Nah, I said a thing earlier that was relevant. That counts.

Also, I know all you fucks only remembered the last time I said that about blacks and lacking public etiquette because you secretly agree with it and thought about how I was right when you experienced blacks acting annoyingly several time in public, a few more times than your current theory could explain. lol.

Oh, and it's not that I don't like blacks, I just think they're MORE LIKELY to...you know, suck in public.lol (not racist).

Little_Miss_1565
09-24-2012, 10:54 PM
Oh look, it's Bighead being insightful again.

So I guess everyone agrees that it's silly for it to be perceived as rude to ask customers to move along at closing time, so long as the expectation has been set up that when they walk in and it's 10 minutes to close, they're told it's 10 minutes to closing.

bighead384
09-25-2012, 06:37 AM
Oh look, it's Bighead being insightful again.

So I guess everyone agrees that it's silly for it to be perceived as rude to ask customers to move along at closing time, so long as the expectation has been set up that when they walk in and it's 10 minutes to close, they're told it's 10 minutes to closing.

I think it's rude regardless of what the restaurant does to prepare for the situation. It's a matter of courtesy to the employees and not a matter of customers following the restaurant's policy.

MOTO13
09-25-2012, 07:13 AM
...Oh, and it's not that I don't like blacks, I just think they're MORE LIKELY to...you know, suck in public.lol (not racist).

This is not entirely untrue. Whether it is simply when they are around white people or not, but I have seen it first hand at stores that SOME...SOME black patrons simply feel they do not have to wait their turn. I have never seen a full blown scene, but it gets a bit unsettling when waiting patiently in line you hear people mumbling crap that is clearly inappropriate or that bs fidgeting, nail clicking crap. Also, I have seen when waiting behind them, they will take their sweet ass time paying or checking out just to make others wait. I just don't see this from whites.

Little_Miss_1565
09-25-2012, 07:39 AM
I think it's rude regardless of what the restaurant does to prepare for the situation. It's a matter of courtesy to the employees and not a matter of customers following the restaurant's policy.

Of course it's courtesy to the employees, but anything that doesn't necessarily jibe with giving a customer whatever they want always seems to go over better if it's packaged as restaurant policy. The other problem is that restaurant owners and managers don't often empower their employees to be able to shut things down in a timely manner and go home if there's a late customer taking his or her time.

jacknife737
09-25-2012, 05:45 PM
It's total bullshit; most places around where i live close the kitchens about 40 minutes before closing to avoid this issue.

Though on the flip side, i do hate in North American restaurants how often you get rushed through your meal by the service staff; i of course understand why they do this, but i wish they got paid a living wage so i didn't have to go through that nonsense everytime i'd like to relax and take things a bit slow.

Harleyquiiinn
09-25-2012, 11:17 PM
It's total bullshit; most places around where i live close the kitchens about 40 minutes before closing to avoid this issue.

Though on the flip side, i do hate in North American restaurants how often you get rushed through your meal by the service staff; i of course understand why they do this, but i wish they got paid a living wage so i didn't have to go through that nonsense everytime i'd like to relax and take things a bit slow.

What do you mean "I wish they got paid a living wage" ? :confused:

Here, you will be warned the hour before closing time I'd say. So you know that you will have to rush. 30 mn before closing time, they just won't admit you.

Llamas
09-26-2012, 04:03 AM
Though on the flip side, i do hate in North American restaurants how often you get rushed through your meal by the service staff; i of course understand why they do this, but i wish they got paid a living wage so i didn't have to go through that nonsense everytime i'd like to relax and take things a bit slow.

Actually, it's not the servers who decide to rush you out. I worked at Perkins (I don't think you have them in Canada, but they're one of the top 4 largest restaurant chains in the US), and at the end of every shift, our boss would print our numbers. Those included our beverage percent (how many of our customers ordered a beverage and not just tap water?), pie sales, something else I can't remember, and our table turn time. The last one had to be under 40 minutes for our boss to be happy. Over 40 minutes was marked red, 40 was yellow, and under was green. That time was calculated from when you first put in the order, to when they pay their bill, so the servers have to really rush you to pay, even if they don't really care if you leave. Hell, my boss pulled me aside a few times cause my turn times were ALWAYS in the 40s, and would tell me to talk to the other servers for advice on how to get them lower... apparently, other servers would move customers from one table to another (just on the computer; not physically) after like 37 minutes, and then have to keep track of who was actually where when they entered in orders, and not let anyone else take out their food for them because it'd end up at the wrong table. Anyway, the point is, it's not the servers who are gung-ho about turn times... it's not about the wages they earn. It all comes from the bosses, and it's obnoxious. When I go out to eat, I wanna relax and chill. I don't wanna be rushed out the door as soon as I finish eating.


What do you mean "I wish they got paid a living wage" ? :confused:


In some states in the US, servers earn minimum wage, which I guess is in the range of $7-8/hr these days? However, other states (like the state I grew up in) allow restaurants to pay servers $2 or $3/hr, and make up the rest in tips. As long as they reach minimum wage after getting their tips, everything is fine legally. So the restaurant gets off with not really paying its employees, and the customers are directly responsible for the server's livelihood. It's disgusting.

Harleyquiiinn
09-26-2012, 05:54 AM
This is... absolutely disgusting.

:mad:

WebDudette
09-26-2012, 05:53 PM
We never rush people out, ever. Even if it after 10, the most we do is turn off the music.

We just finished restaurant week, which is essentially this city wide promotional deal to get people out to local restaurants. Anyway, we've been fucking swamped since it started Saturday before last, until it ended on Sunday. One of my coworkers made a reservation for a group of 5 at 8:30. Whatever, no big deal. Her party doesn't all get here until 9ish and they don't leave until 11:30. She worked a lot of restaurant week, so she knows how awful it was. She knew this was the last night and that everyone was desperate to get off so we could finally have our day off. I can't speak for everyone, but I worked 6 restaurant days straight and basically wanted to die. Then, get this, on an $80 bill she tipped nothing. I guess it's common not to tip your coworks, I had no idea. Still, she paid for someone else's meal, kept her coworkers an hour and a half late, and still didn't fucking tip?

Anyway, the owner/head chef/boss is typically here all day and the last to leave at night. He doesn't want us refusing service before 10pm and he doesn't let us push people out at all. We've literally sat people at 9:55. Sometimes they're good people and hurry out quickly, or we have exceptionally busy night where we can't sit people till 9:30 and we end up with 6 tables at 11. That doesn't really bother me. It's that two top that came in at 9:45 when we were dead and apparently too fucking brain dead to realize it's shitty to stay until 11:30 when you finished eating at 10:45, or their just to fucking entitled to care.

WebDudette
09-26-2012, 05:55 PM
Also, I think our tipping system is awful but still general tip 15-20 percent except in cases of outstandingly fantastic or terrible service. I even tip my coworkers (seriously, is that a thing?).

Little_Miss_1565
09-26-2012, 06:33 PM
If it wasn't her shift and she wasn't somehow on the clock, she most definitely should have tipped. Especially keeping people late. I never tipped on my shift meals at the bar, but if I was there drinking on off days, I tipped like hell especially on any comped drinks.

Not tipping coworkers is not a "thing," she's just rude.

_Lost_
09-26-2012, 09:10 PM
That is the sort of thing I would personally never leave her alone about.

The nice thing about working in a bar in NC is that the kitchen closed by midnight. So at two, when we closed, no one would be eating. NC liquor laws are super tight too, so legally, the place has to be empty of patrons by 230. So as soon as closing time rolled around, security was like "gtfo bitch". However, I worked at a high volume bar, so on the weekends I would work 4pm to sometimes 430am.

Llamas
09-27-2012, 03:20 AM
We just finished restaurant week, which is essentially this city wide promotional deal to get people out to local restaurants. Anyway, we've been fucking swamped since it started Saturday before last, until it ended on Sunday. One of my coworkers made a reservation for a group of 5 at 8:30. Whatever, no big deal. Her party doesn't all get here until 9ish and they don't leave until 11:30. She worked a lot of restaurant week, so she knows how awful it was. She knew this was the last night and that everyone was desperate to get off so we could finally have our day off. I can't speak for everyone, but I worked 6 restaurant days straight and basically wanted to die. Then, get this, on an $80 bill she tipped nothing. I guess it's common not to tip your coworks, I had no idea. Still, she paid for someone else's meal, kept her coworkers an hour and a half late, and still didn't fucking tip?

That girl is a pure asshole. No, not tipping your coworkers isn't a thing. Both at Perkins and at Domino's, we would tip our coworkers farrrrrr more than usual. However, we'd often give our coworkers free stuff, too, so in the end we'd just pay what we'd normally pay (minus tip), and the coworker would get to pocket a lot of it. During a shift when the boss was there, of course we couldn't get away with giving free stuff to our coworkers, but even then we'd still tip like 30-40%. What an asshole.


Also, I think our tipping system is awful but still general tip 15-20 percent except in cases of outstandingly fantastic or terrible service. I even tip my coworkers (seriously, is that a thing?).

Same. In the US, if I get average service, I tip like 15%. If I get bad service (waiting forever, rude server), I might tip 8-10%. If the server is really cool and it's actually a positive experience, I tip about 20%. The only time I ever stiffed a server's tip in my adult life was this time I waited 45 minutes for a refill on my coffee, and then saw my server on the other side of the restaurant, chilling in a booth, smoking a cigarette, and chatting on her phone. She was not on break (especially not for 45 minutes). She did not get a tip.

I've gotten used to not tipping now, though, and it makes me really hate the US system. I hate in the US that, if I wanna go out to eat, I have to plan on not only buying my food, but paying an extra 15-20% on top of that. Pay servers decent wages so that tips are extra for exceptional service, like it is here. Jesus.

Harleyquiiinn
09-27-2012, 03:28 AM
Same. In the US, if I get average service, I tip like 15%. If I get bad service (waiting forever, rude server), I might tip 8-10%. If the server is really cool and it's actually a positive experience, I tip about 20%. The only time I ever stiffed a server's tip in my adult life was this time I waited 45 minutes for a refill on my coffee, and then saw my server on the other side of the restaurant, chilling in a booth, smoking a cigarette, and chatting on her phone. She was not on break (especially not for 45 minutes). She did not get a tip.

I've gotten used to not tipping now, though, and it makes me really hate the US system. I hate in the US that, if I wanna go out to eat, I have to plan on not only buying my food, but paying an extra 15-20% on top of that. Pay servers decent wages so that tips are extra for exceptional service, like it is here. Jesus.

Ah ah, I've read that it is one reason french tourists are not very much appreciated in London. We don't tip ! Because we actually don't know you have to tip 10% of the bill.

Here it's like 50cts of euros for a drink and for an average restaurant, the tip isn't often more than 2 .

Llamas
09-27-2012, 07:23 AM
Ah ah, I've read that it is one reason french tourists are not very much appreciated in London. We don't tip ! Because we actually don't know you have to tip 10% of the bill.

Here it's like 50cts of euros for a drink and for an average restaurant, the tip isn't often more than 2 .

It's not just French people... in the US, a server dreads having any European customers, haha. A lot of servers don't realize (or want to believe) that Europeans honestly don't know how tipping works. I felt that way when I was a server, but then I moved here and had plenty of people actually ask me about tipping in the US. I've had several people say they went to the US and had problems regarding tipping, asked me what the etiquette is. It's hard for servers to understand, but it's equally hard for the visitor to figure out the tipping situation.

Lizardus
09-27-2012, 11:53 AM
Aren't some restaurants in the US adding the tip to the check? I remember my uncle telling my dad that he didn't have to leave a tip at certain places and showing him the tip added at bottom.

Tiny Vessels
09-27-2012, 12:03 PM
Aren't some restaurants in the US adding the tip to the check? I remember my uncle telling my dad that he didn't have to leave a tip at certain places and showing him the tip added at bottom.

Gradituity(something like that on the spelling). Yes some places do that only like on big parties over a certain amount of people. Where I work the only time that I am allowed to do that is when we have our easter buffet.

_Lost_
09-27-2012, 10:24 PM
The bar I worked at added gratuity for parties over eight. They also finally started adding gratuity to crab leg night because on a $1,000 night of personal sales, even the best server would make less than fifty bucks. Not to mention that shit was all you can eat, so they would run you ragged for two hours and leave you three dollars. I would rather just earn a solid wage and have tips be a bonus if I was awesome (which I always am ;))

WebDudette
09-28-2012, 09:52 PM
Two dudes just sat down at 9:50. I hope they came in separate vehicles and on their way home they hit each other. No one is seriously injured, maybe a sprained wrist or a bruise and maybe a couple hundred dollars of damage to their cars.

Oh sweet! Three more people at 9:53! I hope they all crash into each other and die.

Lizardus
09-29-2012, 12:19 AM
They all climb into a bus with a drunk driver and they crash into a klan meeting.

Tiny Vessels
09-30-2012, 10:33 AM
There is always that one customer/table that can just ruin your mood.Thanks for making me feel like shit when I tried to do everything I could to make you happy asshole. Ugh.

WebDudette
09-30-2012, 02:47 PM
10 top at 9:45 last night, lolololo.

Tiny Vessels
09-30-2012, 04:09 PM
Omg that sucks. A few years ago I had a table of 20 come in 5 mins before we closed for breakfast. That was FUN.