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XYlophonetreeZ
10-16-2012, 11:11 AM
I just learned that black panthers (as in, the cats) AREN'T REAL. I don't know how it is in the rest of the US, but in North Carolina it's not just the name of our shitty NFL team, we actually grow up learning that they were once native to the region and are still possibly present, but very highly endangered.

Now I knew all about how the Florida Panther is a real animal, but it's not black and looks more like a mini-mountain lion. I even knew all about how "panther" wasn't really a species, but a melanistic form of other cats. I knew that there were "panther" forms of leopards and jaguars in other parts of the world. But I just learned that they've never existed whatsoever in the US, and that absolutely blew my fucking mind. Apparently nobody credible has ever reported a sighting of a melanistic (black) mountain lion, which is what I always understood "panthers" to be. People claiming to have seen them are widely treated like hillbillies claiming to see Bigfoot. AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO DIDN'T KNOW THIS??? I feel like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. All of the signs are now lining up for me. I've never seen one at a zoo. I've never heard of any kind of "Save the Panthers" conservation effort outside of Florida. And I don't recall learning about them in any of my college courses in which we covered all of the other big cats. I guess just nobody ever beat me over the head with any kind of "Panthers aren't real!" speech. I mean, it's not like your parents sit you down and explain it to you when you're old enough a la Santa Claus. I just hadn't thought about them one way or another in probably 15 years.

I'm totally gonna be a responsible parent and have "the talk" with my kids, though. I'm gonna be like "Son... this may come as a shock to you, but.......... panthers. Aren't Real." I think I'll wait til they're like 17 or something so that they're mature enough to handle the gravity of that information.

randman21
10-16-2012, 02:03 PM
WHAT. THE. FUCK. MAN. I'm so confused.


I just hadn't thought about them one way or another in probably 15 years.
Basically, same here. But consider my mind equally blown. That's insane.

Offspring-Junkie
10-16-2012, 02:58 PM
First of all: Panthers are real, I've seen one in my local zoo. But that was not your point.

In North America there are no panthers and there have never been any. Yeah, that's not a big deal, because, well, there could have been black pumas as you said, but nope, there ain't no black pumas so... no panthers in North America. So were does the myth and the talking about them come from?

In Austria there have never been any panthers as well, still, they are on the flag of Carinthia, the southern part of Austria. Here's a picture:

http://www.nationalflaggen.de/media/flags/flagge-kaernten-dienstflagge.gif

In ancient times (during the Middle Ages and earlier) kingdoms often had somewhat mystical creatures on their flags. They "compared" themselves with those creatures and put them on their flags to make themself look more dangerous for their enemies. As the pilgrims entered North America, they did the same thing. They talked about and compared themself to creatures that never existed.

That's what still happens today if they create a new team in sports. A nice example: Toronto Raptors. The Velociraptor never existed at all, it was invented by Steven Spielberg or one of his employees. A very similar version of the Velociraptor existed though, the Deinonychus.

XYlophonetreeZ
10-16-2012, 03:22 PM
First of all: Panthers are real, I've seen one in my local zoo. But that was not your point.

Probably a melanistic leopard or jaguar. "Panther" means a big cat, as the genus is Panthera, so a "black panther" is any of the big cat species that's black. In the US, though, the connotation of "panther" is a black mountain lion.


In North America there are no panthers and there have never been any. Yeah, that's not a big deal, because, well, there could have been black pumas as you said, but nope, there ain't no black pumas so... no panthers in North America.
Don't really understand the logic here at all. It's not just that there could have been black pumas, it's that a lot of people think that there are.


So were does the myth and the talking about them come from?
Well, I don't know. That's why my mind is blown. Maybe Native Americans who migrated from Mexico and Central America, where there could have been melanistic jaguars? Maybe fleeting glances at large bobcats?

I think the main difference between the American panther and those ridiculous creatures on the Carinthian flag, or a Chinese dragon, or something like that, is that it hasn't been perpetuated as a myth; it just is one. The image of a panther has not been caricaturized in the US, it's been portrayed consistently as a realistic-looking black mountain lion. As a result, unless I'm just way out of touch, most people believe it is a real North American cat.

And Velociraptor is the actual Linnaean name for a genus of carnivorous dinosaurs, and they were also in the book Jurassic Park before the movie was made.

MOTO13
10-16-2012, 03:47 PM
Just for future reference and possibly stop a panic attack, hissy fit, or other mental mind blowing mallady on your part...when you partially put your arm (or any item) in water, it only appears that it's broken. So don't friggin geek out.

Rooster
10-16-2012, 04:33 PM
The Velociraptor never existed at all, it was invented by Steven Spielberg or one of his employees. A very similar version of the Velociraptor existed though, the Deinonychus.

Actually Velociraptor (V. mongoliensis) did exist, but was a smaller animal than the Jurassic Park version, and wasn't nearly as intelligent. The movie version was actually based on Deinonychus, which was similarly sized and also had somewhat similarly shaped skull. But both shared a hugely important difference from the movie raptor version - they were feathered, or at last they are believed to have been (and the evidence supporting this theory is overwhelming, but when the first JP was made nobody knew this). So in the end, Velociraptor as people know it from Jurassic Park is a fictional animal.


So wait, panther is just a melanistic form of various big predatory cat species? What the fuck? I always thought it was a separate species. But in the end we shouldn't really be surprised, after all, melanistic forms can be found in various species, including our own. Does the fact that we're surprised mean that we're... Catists? :p

Tijs
10-16-2012, 04:39 PM
I hate this thread. You guys are ruining everything.

Demazi
10-16-2012, 05:43 PM
After all these years I felt I finally should create this account, just to say this.


Mind = Blown

Offspring-Junkie
10-17-2012, 01:43 AM
So what are we talking about?

1) If the panther is an own species? No, it's not. I know that since childhood, there are documentaries about that.

2)Why do people in the US still think that the panther (as own species or as black puma or whatever) exists in North America? They're not interested in science in general I guess. There are documentries and there is Wikipedia.

3)Why or how the myth was created? I tried to explain it with my last post.

4) Did I know it? No, it thought maybe there are black pumas there. I'm not mind-blown either.

5) Is the Velociraptor real? Yes, but it's too small, so it's not the nightmarish creature of Jurassic Park. The Dinonychus is the real Velocirapor people still think always existed because either Michael Crichton or Steven Spielberg just invented the Velociraptor as shown in the movie.

XYlophonetreeZ
10-17-2012, 02:45 AM
2)Why do people in the US still think that the panther (as own species or as black puma or whatever) exists in North America? They're not interested in science in general I guess. There are documentries and there is Wikipedia.

4) Did I know it? No, it thought maybe there are black pumas there. I'm not mind-blown either.

Wait, whaaa?

I guess you're not interested in science in general, either. By your own logic, you're pretty ignorant for thinking that maybe, just maybe, there were black pumas out there. You'd have to be, in order not to have seen every documentary ever about an animal of no immediate relevance to your life.

Also, I guess you half-way knew something that I didn't. Big deal; the entire thread implied that most people probably did.

Alison
10-17-2012, 04:23 AM
I always thought maybe a panther was a north American name for a jaguar or something. Like the away a bobcat is the same as a lynx.
I actually had planned on looking this up recently.

So I guess a black puma or a black jaguar is known as a black panther...interesting.

Offspring-Junkie
10-17-2012, 06:17 AM
Wait, whaaa?

I guess you're not interested in science in general, either. By your own logic, you're pretty ignorant for thinking that maybe, just maybe, there were black pumas out there. You'd have to be, in order not to have seen every documentary ever about an animal of no immediate relevance to your life.

Also, I guess you half-way knew something that I didn't. Big deal; the entire thread implied that most people probably did.

Let's get this straight. I KNEW panthers are leopards or jaguars. I never ever heard anything about black pumas so I assumed it could be possible, that there could have been black pumas in North America. I didn't look it up. Why Americans don't know that there were never any panthers in North America I don't know, I didn't know either. I just wanted to point out why they (in my humble opinion) invented them in their own country. Sorry if I pissed you off by saying Americans are lazy in science. Yes, I'm lazy myself, but as a kid I watched documentaries about animals, alright?

Is this politically correct enough? Next time I'll fake that I know it better. "Pumas cannot be panthers, haha! You didn't know that?"

PS: I looked it up in (german) Wikipedia. In America people say panther to pumas (not black, regular ones), in Europe you only use the term for black jaguars and leopards. I have still no idea if black pumas exist. If someone does, tell me, I'm interested, but I doubt it.

Edit 2: Here's a link for those who want to know it exactly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_panther

Llamas
10-17-2012, 08:01 AM
Does the fact that we're surprised mean that we're... Catists? :p
Unless you think one type of cat is far, far superior to the others, you are not a catist ;)


2)Why do people in the US still think that the panther (as own species or as black puma or whatever) exists in North America? They're not interested in science in general I guess. There are documentries and there is Wikipedia.

4) Did I know it? No, it thought maybe there are black pumas there. I'm not mind-blown either.

You really, really love bashing the US, don't you? Every country has myths that the general population believes. They're part of a country's history. It does not mean Americans aren't interested in science...

Personally, I know I learned as a teenager what a panther really is. For some reason, I know that panthers do not exist in North America, but I'm not sure when I learned it or how. So I'm not mind-blown, but I also don't think this is something the average person spends time researching and trying to get to the bottom of... so I could understand being surprised by this :)

nieh
10-17-2012, 08:16 AM
I didn't know most of the stuff in the original post. Panthers just being melanistic versions of various species seems weird to me since when an animal is alibino we simply refer to them as an albino whatever species they are as opposed to having it's own special name that runs through various species (and even then, only CAT species, why aren't melanistic members of non-cats also referred to as panthers?).
I don't think I was ever told that black panthers were native in the states so that part doesn't really shock me. I may have just assumed the sportball team was referring to non-local stuff, though now that I think about it, that's probably a bit atypical.

Offspring-Junkie
10-17-2012, 08:24 AM
You really, really love bashing the US, don't you? Every country has myths that the general population believes. They're part of a country's history. It does not mean Americans aren't interested in science...

Honestly? Yes.

_Lost_
10-17-2012, 10:06 AM
When I think black panther, I always think of the jaguar in The Jungle Book. I never really thought of panthers being a native NC cat, cause I've only ever heard reports of regular mountain lions. I just figured the Panthers choose their name cause there is something particularly ominous about a black cat, especially a big one.

nieh
10-17-2012, 11:53 AM
That's racist.

Little_Miss_1565
10-17-2012, 12:10 PM
Offspring-Junkie, your shit is boring. Why not change it up a little sometimes and not, you know, mindlessly parrot a bunch of douchebaggery?

Offspring-Junkie
10-17-2012, 12:54 PM
Offspring-Junkie, your shit is boring. Why not change it up a little sometimes and not, you know, mindlessly parrot a bunch of douchebaggery?

I, too, wanted to thank you, because you managed this place so well. I rarely saw any spam, appreciate what you did here and I hope you'll stick around here for some more time. Thank you.

Llamas
10-17-2012, 12:58 PM
I didn't know most of the stuff in the original post. Panthers just being melanistic versions of various species seems weird to me since when an animal is alibino we simply refer to them as an albino whatever species they are as opposed to having it's own special name that runs through various species (and even then, only CAT species, why aren't melanistic members of non-cats also referred to as panthers?).

Well, I'd say it's similar to tabby cats. Many people think a tabby is a kind of cat (or at least refer to them that way), when really tabby is just a color pattern which can come through in many cat species. I think albino is just such a common melanistic color trait that people are so aware of to a point where nobody makes this mistake - possibly because it occurs in humans, as well, unlike panther and tabby colorings. Though from now on I'm only referring to Randy and Ricky as panthers. PS: I heard panthers are really good at basketball. Also, why does bighead hate panthers so much??


Honestly? Yes.
And why exactly? What is your huge beef with the US? Have you ever been there? Do you have any American friends? Why such extreme hate?

Offspring-Junkie
10-17-2012, 01:13 PM
You really, really love bashing the US, don't you?

Honestly? No.

Rooster
10-17-2012, 03:01 PM
♫ Everybody's gone trollin'
trollin' USA ♫

Godxilla
10-17-2012, 04:23 PM
After all these years I felt I finally should create this account, just to say this.


Mind = Blown
Even the bots are shocked.

Just for future reference and possibly stop a panic attack, hissy fit, or other mental mind blowing mallady on your part...when you partially put your arm (or any item) in water, it only appears that it's broken. So don't friggin geek out.
Whoa. Never knew that. I just thought that inder the pressure of water, a circular vortex of ultrasonic energy snapped my arm off, and the used intrastellar magnetic pulsateonic grams of germanium to put it back later. Gee.

♫ Everybody's gone trollin'
trollin' USA ♫

Nothing wrong with a troll.

Well, I guess I'll have to stop calling my pet black cat a panther. That's too bad. I think that she liked that named.

Rooster
10-17-2012, 04:53 PM
Nothing wrong with a troll.

How can you tell, are you a doctor? For all we know he could have a broken arm (it is a generally known fact that such injuries can be seen more easily when the arm is partially submerged under water). That would deffinitely count as "something wrong" in my books.


We wish the said troll a speedy recovery.

WebDudette
10-17-2012, 07:49 PM
Are we talking this guy:
http://api.ning.com/files/KhufQOJYiS*oUKgduYY7AiQxriadMW0SWbljMaMytlg2ARiiY5 OiLoKgL73OveSUjKIRQXxqr7CsJUYcn73V5X92tbvcElM4/black_panther.jpg

Or these guys:
http://hiphopwired.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/panthers.jpg

The former definitely doesn't exist, which is a shame, because he is so fucking awesome. I am pretty sure the latter exist though, even today. They even showed up in Forrest Gump and everyone knows that if it was in that movie, it definitely happened.

If I weren't an American I would definitely hate America. The jealousy would be so strong, I'm not sure it could manifest in any other way besides anger.