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offspringueuse
10-29-2004, 08:19 AM
I like this man. I like what he does. he's great! :cool:

Fallen.
10-29-2004, 08:19 AM
Moore for Prez! That's my motto.

Tijs
10-29-2004, 08:21 AM
I like watching his movies. Not saying I agree with it all.

Not Ozymandias
10-29-2004, 08:22 AM
Fahrenheit 9/11 was whack, he stupidly played to the center like a politician instead of just making the best movie he could and it made the whole thing seem like merely an insightful political report instead of a real FILM.

ACAB
10-29-2004, 08:32 AM
well,i pay respect to him and his work. i like the way he points out his views in books and his films...it was really nice suprise to see an american movie that was critican about america..in movie theater even
i personally liked it,just like his other films

Nina
10-29-2004, 10:13 AM
am i the only person who found his books slightly
boring? [and with slightly i DO mean slightly, so
dont think different.]
this is a serious question, by the way.

RobinoZombie
10-29-2004, 10:26 AM
If he is his work then i love him
I love his books and films

BuddyHolly
10-29-2004, 11:35 AM
i've only seen Bowling For Columbine, and i've read Stupid White Men. I like his sense of humor.

RXP
10-29-2004, 12:08 PM
The fat liberal should eat a dick.

nieh
10-29-2004, 06:29 PM
The fat liberal should eat a dick.

A-FUCKING-MEN!

Michael Moore is a degenerate piece of shit. He makes people believe false things without actually lying even more than any polititian ever has. The only one of his works I've seen was Bowling for Columbine, but I've read interviews and such with him as well. I have no doubt that Fahrenheit 9/11 was a fairly decent movie though, simply because you don't have to bend the truth to make Bush look bad. Everytime I criticize Moore, people think I'm pro-Bush, but I'm not, I think he sucks. I'm voting for Kerry. Moore is a hypocrite. He claims to fight for the common American, but owns a 1.2 million dollar home. His website is (or at least WAS) hosted by Canadians because it was cheaper. Moore accepted funds from the Hezbollah (a group known for funding terrorist actions against the U.S.) to help distribute his movie to the Middle East. He's quoted as saying "The small businesspeople are the rednecks that run the town and supress the people. Fuck 'em all. That's how I feel." (http://www.arcataeye.com/top/020312top02.shtml).

gasdgjkbn;aslgtrjn. Anyway, the fact of the matter is that most people that are pro-Moore defend him blindly simply because he's criticizing the people they want criticized, and he does it with style (despite being a fat slob) because he's funny about it. They defend Moore against the same attacks they send at Bush. It's completely stupid and one-sided and I can't stand the fact that I know as many people as I do that listen to every word he says without even thinking. He's got the state of mind of a teenager in that he sees small connections between things and is able to stretch them to absolute unrealistic extremes, but he's got about 35 years experience at it, so he's really good at sounding convincing. The fact of the matter is, with enough footage, I could make Michael Moore look like an anorexic right wing conservative even worse than Bill O'Riley. People say it's great that he was able to get movies criticizing the government into theaters? That's because possibly the most popular thing you can do in America is to criticize the American government. The movies were guaranteed to make money, and the controversy around them would make more. The fact is, the government wouldn't ban it because that would just make it even more popular because people would be like "THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO SEE THIS MOVIE! THAT PROVES THAT IT'S 100% TRUE!"

BREAK
10-29-2004, 06:55 PM
That's because possibly the most popular thing you can do in America is to criticize the American government.

Wow.

Just....wow.

You seriously believe that?!?!?

Come down to Utah sometime. Stand on a street corner holding an anti-Bush sign, chanting anti-Bush slogans. SEE how many $5 tips you get then, assmunch.

nieh
10-29-2004, 07:23 PM
Wow.

Just....wow.

You seriously believe that?!?!?

Come down to Utah sometime. Stand on a street corner holding an anti-Bush sign, chanting anti-Bush slogans. SEE how many $5 tips you get then, assmunch.

That's Utah. Come to New Jersey, everyone criticizes the government constantly (even most the people that are still voting for Bush...cept for the few people that are completely and totally right-wing). Why do bands/actors get more publicity when they talk about being anti-war and anti-Bush if it's not popular? Even if people disagree with the movie, it still gets publicity and people want to see it to see how 'crazy' it is and they want to see what they'll say next. Kind of like how most of the people that call into Bill O'Riley on the radio are calling up to tell him he's wrong. People will listen to it even though they disagree with it, just like how a lot of people will pay to see Moore's movie even if they don't like it.

PresidentKiller
10-29-2004, 07:28 PM
I liked both Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11. They're great movies and I don't care if they are 100% true or not.

What I do know, and nobody else told me or made me think that, is that George W. Bush is the stupidest thing that has ever existed.

Not Ozymandias
10-29-2004, 10:44 PM
Moore is a hypocrite. He claims to fight for the common American, but owns a 1.2 million dollar home.
That's pretty goddamn fucking idiotic. So he should start voting Republican now that he has money?

"You'll never BELIEVE what I found when I was rummaging through his garbage last night!"

wheelchairman
10-30-2004, 05:41 AM
Moore accepted funds from the Hezbollah (a group known for funding terrorist actions against the U.S.) to help distribute his movie to the Middle East.


Incorrect, before you make lies like this, I expect you to substantiate them.

Secondly Hezbollah, I believe is only called a terrorist group by the US and Israel. Anyone who has any actual knowledge to their activities would be hesitant to call them that. Since they are much more similar to an army than any loosely-linked coalition like Al-Qaida. But heaven forbid you do some research or I don't know....read something with a critical eye.

Second, you are a hypocrit, you dislike Michael Moore for his long ad hominem-like films by criticizing his weight in a long ad-hominem post.

Now I don't agree with Michael Moore on a lot of things, gun control for example. However it's ignorance to deny his necessity in American society today. Because let's face it, dissent is not common in the American media. And no one really cares about all the people in New Jersey. The majority of Americans are what it's about isn't it? Because even in Oregon, there are quite a few conservatives for example. And that was a state that went to Gore.

Betty
10-30-2004, 11:22 AM
That's pretty goddamn fucking idiotic. So he should start voting Republican now that he has money?

I don't think it's so much that but more that he criticized Bush for doing anything that might happen to benefit or enrich him personally while getting rich himself off what he does.

Like, regardless of which of Bush's "conspiracies" to get rich are true, if he does something to benefit the world (which people don't agree with) and happens (purposely or not so purposely) to benefit America at the same time, that's how it works out. Michael Moore is apparently benefitting America with his films explaining the "truth" and he is happening to get rich off of them at the same time.

A lot of the people that are the most anti-Bush are not the ones working in the factories, or stocking shelves at the retail stores, but those who have less "real" jobs such as filmmaking, acting, music making, etc.

Not Ozymandias
10-30-2004, 11:40 AM
They're an overwhelming minority. And creating successful art or entertainment isn't easy.

Snoopy
10-30-2004, 12:59 PM
Moore? *cough* left me out of this discussion about politics that you started, because i don't know anything about it, i'll only say i like his movies, that's all.

Alexa
10-30-2004, 01:01 PM
I like this man!!!!

RonWelty
10-30-2004, 01:15 PM
he said in his documentaries some interesting things that should be take in attention

dadfernan98
10-30-2004, 02:25 PM
Long life for Michal Moore, the most patriotic person in this country, revealing our country's dirty truth, let's not let f...g bush screw our country!!!!!!!! he's a f...g red neck that just cares about his oil companies and millionare contracts in irak (that;s why he create that war.. not to give freedom to that people). Laden still enjoying life while bush attacks somewhere else...................

SicN Twisted
10-30-2004, 02:40 PM
Of course it's okay to critisze the government when you live on the fucking east coast. It's the mecca of American liberalism. The majority of the country is concentrated in the south and midwest, where you'll get lynched for having a Kerry sticker.

nieh
10-30-2004, 04:36 PM
That's pretty goddamn fucking idiotic. So he should start voting Republican now that he has money?


no, but he should stop trying to play off a common man image when he's anything but.



Second, you are a hypocrit, you dislike Michael Moore for his long ad hominem-like films by criticizing his weight in a long ad-hominem post.


I'll give you that, it was kind of a low blow...anyway. Bowling for Columbine, half the movie he was talking about how bad guns are. He got two children that were shot during the Columbine incident to appear and get K-Mart (or wal-mart? It's been a while, I apoligize) to stop selling bullets. One of the children was in a wheelchair (Richard), the other (Mark) still had bullets inside of him from the shooting. He basically gets the owner of the K-Mart to agree to stop selling bullets, and all the K-Marts would phase the out of stock over 90 days. Moore uses this scene to make the viewer feel like he accomplished something. However, later in the movie, he says something along the lines of "it's not the presence of guns in America that makes things so bad, because in Canada, the ratios of guns to people is 3 times as high" (again, it's been a while since i saw it, the ratio might have been different, the point was canada has more guns/person than America does, and he stated that in the movie). This completely negates his earlier scene at K-Mart because he admits that the guns themselves are not the issue. Also, after the movie was released, Mark (the child with the bullets still in him) announced he was outraged with the way he was portrayed, stating that despite being attacked, he still believes in everyone's right to own a gun. Richard announced that he believes removing bullets from the store was a positive outcome, however he does believe Moore was not up front with what he wanted them for. He told them he was making a movie, but didn't say what it was about.

Also, there was an animated scene in the movie that looked like something out of South Park. During the scene, my friends and I were asking each other "Do you think Matt and Trey did that?". After the animated scene finished, there was an interview with Matt and Trey, creators of South Park. We all said "yeah, it must've been them, they're doing an interview now". It was only recently that I found out they had nothing to do with the animated scene. After they watched Bowling for Columbine, Matt and Trey were also furious at Moore because the movie gave the impression that they created and believed what was in the animation when they had no part in it.

When Bowling for Columbine was finished, Moore sent invitations for a preview screening of Bowling for Columbine to all the parents whose children were injured or killed in the attack. They were all very interested. Later, they found out that Moore intended to charge them for admission. Some of the families ended up refusing to go. Here's a quote from one of the parents.

"It's laughable that Moore attempts to portray himself as an anti-establishment liberal who is the voice of the common folk, when in fact he is no better than the greedy capitalists he shuns. Maybe now that he has made millions of dollars off the blood of our children he could toss a DVD or two our way to view"

As for the Hezbollah thing, I'll admit I don't know much about them. I did check on a few sources (I will admit, they were internet sources) and each and every one of them mentioned they were a terrorist group. I spoke to a few people that follow this stuff at work, they also mentioned they were a terrorist group. So out of the handful of sources I had, they all said terrorist, with no reason for me to believe otherwise until you mentioned that. It's not that I wasn't reading critically, it was that I never heard or saw anything that would suggest it wasn't fact.

In terms of Moore being necessary to America....I fucking hate to say it, but you may be correct. He gets some people that never questioned things to question them (despite a large number of the points he makes being twisted to the point where they're no more true than what the other side is telling). He could be like a phase or something...where people listen to what he says religiously because he thinks different from the regualr media, up until they start to form their own opinions, then they start to look back at him and feel stupid for buying into it (kinda like me, I liked BFC at first but was never like OMG he's amazing!). I really really wish there was someone that could attack the media, government and all without having to twist the truth because you don't HAVE to twist the truth to make a point.

Anyway, I know Ozy and I (and I'm pretty sure you were at least THERE for one...) have had some little quarrels over Moore on the old boards before. There's nothing I can say to change his (and probably not your) opinion, and there's nothing he can say to change mine because we've both heard pretty much every argument for or against him, so I'm going to try to keep my opinion to myself from now on, cause all it's gonna do is start problems and no one's mind will change. (that and cause I think everyone here thinks I suck now. hooray!)

Moose
10-30-2004, 04:55 PM
i dont like fat people.
________
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SicN Twisted
10-30-2004, 05:30 PM
The reason so many right wingers are so threatened by Michael Moore is that they have no equivelent to him. He's intelligent, his points or well thought out, he's a great film maker, and he appeals to the public. Who can compete?

F911 bashers, what about it is a lie? Because I've done pretty extensive research and the film is pretty accurate.

SuperKnux
10-30-2004, 06:05 PM
Love him or hate him, we will always talk about him.

We really need more people like Moore to defend and show us things like this before they start walking all over us. He stands up for us, and sure he might make some cash out of it, but look where a lot of it goes. A portion of the money he gets from the Soundtrack to F9/11 goes to families of 9/11 and stuff.

I seriously don't know why people have a problem with him. Maybe those people just don't like to question anything against their beliefs. Be alittle bit more open minded. And, just cause I say this, doesn't mean I agree with everything Moore says, okay. I'm just saying be more opened minded.

BTW, if you've only seen F9/11 and Bowling, you guys should really check out The Big One, and Roger & Me. Those are also really good films of his.

nieh
10-30-2004, 06:22 PM
The reason so many right wingers are so threatened by Michael Moore is that they have no equivelent to him. He's intelligent, his points or well thought out, he's a great film maker, and he appeals to the public. Who can compete?

F911 bashers, what about it is a lie? Because I've done pretty extensive research and the film is pretty accurate.

Never did I criticize F9/11's facts because I never saw it. I criticized Bowling for Columbine, and things that I read in interviews with him. In fact, I said I have no doubt it's pretty decent simply because you don't have to bend the truth to make Bush look bad. However, Moore had footage of American soldiers torturing Iraqi's (which he used in the movie) months before anyone else did, but rather than tell someone and put an end to it, he kept it to himself. He never released it to anyone because he said he didn't want people to think he was just using it to promote his movie.

nieh
10-30-2004, 06:25 PM
I seriously don't know why people have a problem with him. Maybe those people just don't like to question anything against their beliefs. Be alittle bit more open minded. And, just cause I say this, doesn't mean I agree with everything Moore says, okay. I'm just saying be more opened minded.

as I said, I liked Bowling for Columbine when I first saw it. It wasn't until later that I started to realize all the things wrong with it. So it's not a lack of open-mindedness so much as it's seeing things from a new viewpoint.

Moose
10-30-2004, 07:51 PM
i like how in bowling for colombine he first says how there isnt that many blacks or minorities if you will in canada and they have gun violence and crimes and then he later in the film says thats funny i see a lot of minorities in canada...if you watch it carefully you'll notice, im not getting the exact info or accuracy so watch it with detail and try to see the contradictions. i also thought it was messed up wat he did to charlton heston. the best thing he did in the movie was have the beginning of americana (the song) in the film, but he just kept looping it over and over haha. but ya hes fat. and he does contradict stuff in his films, and does twist stuff around, and ya he does have a 2 million dollar house, but on the otherside you can at least say he tries to think about stuff, but even when he is right, he has to make sure that everyone else agrees or tries to convince people so he twists shit a little more for his view and stuff. i havent seen f911 so i cant say, im eventually going to see his other films, but ya hes fat.
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Master of Puppets
10-30-2004, 08:54 PM
oh my god i hate moore, hes a hypocritical asshole who spreads propaganda and feeds his fat ass with more and more cash

anyone see team america? moore suicide bombs mount rushmore LMAO

PresidentKiller
10-30-2004, 10:38 PM
.. hes a hypocritical asshole who spreads propaganda and feeds his fat ass with more and more cash

Yeah... and I wonder, then who the hell are George W. Bush, Ronald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and Collin Powell.... ? :rolleyes:

Not Ozymandias
10-30-2004, 10:43 PM
no, but he should stop trying to play off a common man image when he's anything but.
How does he do that?


Anyway, I know Ozy and I (and I'm pretty sure you were at least THERE for one...) have had some little quarrels over Moore on the old boards before. There's nothing I can say to change his (and probably not your) opinion, and there's nothing he can say to change mine because we've both heard pretty much every argument for or against him, so I'm going to try to keep my opinion to myself from now on, cause all it's gonna do is start problems and no one's mind will change. (that and cause I think everyone here thinks I suck now. hooray!)
I don't care if you hate him. Anyone who makes the kinds of movies that he does is bound to whip up some serious animosity. I'm just puzzled why you would care that he owns a nice home.

Not Ozymandias
10-30-2004, 10:45 PM
However, Moore had footage of American soldiers torturing Iraqi's (which he used in the movie) months before anyone else did, but rather than tell someone and put an end to it, he kept it to himself. He never released it to anyone because he said he didn't want people to think he was just using it to promote his movie.
They weren't torturing them, they were just being asshats. It was nothing like Abu Gharib and nothing that would've raised an eybrow at the Defense Department had he reported it

Not Ozymandias
10-30-2004, 10:49 PM
BTW, if you've only seen F9/11 and Bowling, you guys should really check out The Big One, and Roger & Me. Those are also really good films of his.
Roger & Me is alright. But its central thesis is back-asswards. Complaining about GM fucking American workers in the ass is like lecturing a mountain lion for ripping a deer's throat out. It's what they do. The movie should've been called Ronnie & Me, and been about why the government allows attrocities like that to happen.

Plus, the dishonesty of attributing Flint's slow death to plant closings that took place only 3 years before the movie came out is hard to get around sometimes.

SicN Twisted
10-31-2004, 12:19 AM
Nieh, Michael Moore grew up working class. Making a buck later in life doesn't change that. He's a legitimate working man, just like Snoop Dogg is still a legitimate gangsta. It's not what you earn, it's what you start with and grow up with.

Betty
10-31-2004, 01:57 PM
Nieh, Michael Moore grew up working class. Making a buck later in life doesn't change that. He's a legitimate working man, just like Snoop Dogg is still a legitimate gangsta. It's not what you earn, it's what you start with and grow up with.

Although that has some validity, I would be tempted to disagree a little.

Because someone who is born rich might still work their ass off to get richer or stay rich, and they would still know the value of hard work, etc. Although this would not apply to everyone, I'm just saying that just cause you're born rich doesn't have to mean you're a spoiled brat who takes things for granted and coasts through life on parents' coat tails, etc.

Also, the same could be said about Bush... imagine he had started off as working class and then made it to the exact same position he was in, would the same arguments still apply?

Goki
10-31-2004, 02:09 PM
i love his sense of humour.

Betty
10-31-2004, 02:16 PM
F911 bashers, what about it is a lie? Because I've done pretty extensive research and the film is pretty accurate.

Well, I think a good thing to do would be to watch Fahrenhype 9-11 to get a good idea of both sides of the story. If you can find it. I know I watched a downloaded version.

I watched Fahrenheit when it came out, even though I'm not a Moore fan, because I wanted to have seen it with my own eyes so that I could make my own judgements calls and not just read other people's. The movie WAS entertaining for the most part, but a lot of things seemed sketchy at the time.

Anyway, I got ahold of this link about the lies in Fahrenheit. It's quite good. At first I wasn't sure how official it was, but then in Fahrenhype, they said it was something like the "most comprehensive compilation of the deceits" etc. So, you should read it. The link is a more abbreviated version.

http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf

Also, Nieh has a point when he explains how Moore will use footage and not tell people why he wanted it. Because I've heard of numerous examples where he doesn't explain to the people how he will use the footage and then ends up giving false impressions by the way he puts it together.

Also, about Nieh being concerned that people think he sucks, I understand what you mean... but if you're a nice and intelligent and interesting person in most ways, but you disagree with somebody on the touchy subjects like politics/relgion/etc. it's not fair that they hold it against you as long as you're civil about it. That's my view.

Mota Boy
10-31-2004, 02:44 PM
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/18/173312/462

SicN Twisted
10-31-2004, 10:37 PM
Of course he's one sided, and his movie is propaghanda. Every fact he presented was true, although some were a bit twisted and put out of context. The general point he makes is still valid and he backs it up really well. My problem with Moore is he leans too far towards to center to appeal to mass audiences. He's the kind of liberal that has face in changing the system instead of acknowledging the neccesity to replace it - in my opinion of course. Still, it was an all around good movie.

I saw Farenhype. It makes since if you believe in Wilsonian foreign policy, because that automatically justifies Bush's actions because alot of them are, technically speaking, practical. On a moral level, Michael Moore has the upper hand.

greencows12
10-31-2004, 10:44 PM
He's cool, but i'm still an anarchist.

Moose
10-31-2004, 10:47 PM
haha anarchist, how silly.

Zugg Island Convict
11-01-2004, 08:53 AM
mm is cool..poliically and humerously...... :D

wheelchairman
11-01-2004, 10:13 AM
What do you know about Anarchism? Your probably one of those idiots who believes that anarchism is solely the elimination of the state and nothing else.

Betty
11-01-2004, 04:00 PM
On a moral level, Michael Moore has the upper hand.

I guess I'd believe that some republicans might be assholes, etc.

But I think that a lot of them have their morals in the right place, and they just have different opinions about how things should be done than the left. It's frustrating that so many people think that Bush and his administration are absolutely terrible lying people. I think he truly wants to do what he believes is best for America and the world, and I would much more respect somebody who said they didn't agree with the way he did things, than somebody who simply said he was Bush Hitler or whatever (and I remember Vera said that thing about it simply referring to his foreign policy... but I'm referring to the people who just say it cause it equals evilness).

wheelchairman
11-01-2004, 04:27 PM
Morals are irrelevant. I could care less. I don't think anyone who has power in America cares about anyone but themselves. It's basic Machiavellianism (seriously, you'll find this in 'The Prince' I recommend it.) Politicians must seem virtuous without needing to actually be it.

Personally Bush has done nothing of real virtue in my opinion. He's had a consistently racist foreign policy. He's laid the foundations for racism in America. (Jesus let's not forget the destruction of equal rights for people of Middle Eastern decent, hell no he's no Hitler.)

Hitler didn't do everything in the first four years either. And funnily enough, Hitler also cared about his country apparently. I mean that is the founding thought behind extreme nationalism isn't it?

Whether or not Bush is a saint, I don't care. However, the effects of his policies are what matters. And they obviously aren't virtuous.

Betty
11-01-2004, 06:48 PM
See, that's a better answer.

It's about politics. Not morals. Although I like to believe most politicians are moral people, because I like to trust people in general, however naive of me that may be.

I'd like to address the racism issue, but I don't think I'd do a very good job of it. I think racism is a terrible thing, but so is over anti-racism. In the same way that extreme feminism can be bad. But no matter what I say about the war, I don't know enough to defend anything, so I think I'll avoid that for now.

nirvana
11-01-2004, 06:51 PM
michael moore is cool. dont rip him off.

ok

SicN Twisted
11-01-2004, 08:13 PM
I disagree with you Betty. Right wingers believe that the moral thing to do is the most beneficial thing to do. The ends justify the means. Invading this country will affect us better in the long run, and will give our citizens lower gas prices, so it's okay.

Of course Republicans think that what they're doing is morally okay, but that's because most Republicans don't exactly know what their government does. They're people who believe the propaghanda their fed. I doubt that Rumsfeld himself bases policies on morals. American officials are, at least in my opinion, morally bankrupt - they just act deceptive about it to get votes. That is, if we follow the same morals that the majority of humanity contructs itself on, mass murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc.

Betty
11-01-2004, 08:35 PM
Well, if in my point of view, the "end" is not lower gas prices, but is actually saving thousands of Americans from attack, and saving the iraqis from a dictator and giving them a democracy, then I think yes, morally, it would justify the means.

However, we disagree on the ends. You don't think the US is helping Iraq, you think the US is occupying Iraq. I'm not sure how concerned you are about terrorist attacks, but you believe that the war in defense is also a form of terrorism, a worse(?) form of terrorism.

Regarding propaganda... I don't just blindly believe everything I hear in the media, etc. Hell, if I DID, I would be ultra left-wing because the media is so left-wing and pro-democratic. To get what I believe is valid information, it's a lot harder. It's hard to find sources that I don't feel are left-wing "propaganda". What you and WCM are saying are not like, super secret "this is what the government isn't telling" you information, it is what I hear and see EVERYDAY EVERYWHERE. I went to the bookstore to find a pro-Bush book, and there was maybe 3 out of 50 Bush-bashing books. No word of a lie.

Also, if you're so in favour of leaving Iraq be how it is, and how the US is evil, maybe you should move to Iraq... or to Europe where everything is happier. Because maybe you don't appreciate what the US has worked to do and accomplish? That might be a harsh comment, but it's easy for you to criticize when you're reaping all the benefits.

SicN Twisted
11-02-2004, 12:35 AM
It's my right (and duty) as an American citizen to use my limited democratic right to help stop the death, destruction, and chaos that the United States government is "accomplishing." I'm not speaking based on moral grounds, I'm speaking based on facts. It's a fact that Saddam Hussein was no threat to us. Bush and Cheney seem to be the only two people in the entire world who refuse to acknowledge this fact. While you are right that Saddam Hussein was a dictator, and Iraq is now technically liberated, I have trouble believing that our ousting him was driven by morals, since the US government enthusiastically supported his regime throughout his worst atrocities, included the imfamous "gassing of the Kurds." Guess who funded it? Guess who made the effort to keep the press awayt from it.

You can't possibly say that our foreign policy is based on morals when for every dictator we oust, we install 20 or so. If you'd look at the parts of history that aren't all over fox news, you'd realize that our country has funded and supporting murderous fascist coups throughout central America, Africa, and the Carribean. When I refer to the "War on Terror" as worse terrorism then anything ever committed AQ, I base that on our country's own code defining terrorism. Anyone who's willing to apply to same standards to the United States as they do the rest of the world obviously knows that AMerican foreign policy has complete disregard to morals. If I'm wrong, then someone will have to morally justify American support of the biggest genocide since the Holocaust in East Timor, our installation and support of Pinochet and Chili, and our countless refusels to appear before the security councils on charges of... hmm, what's the magic word - terrorism.

Moose
11-02-2004, 01:05 PM
michael moore is fat...

on another note he has been on all those cnn, msnbc, fox news channels saying how he is out to film voter intimidation if there is any, and he also has been criticizing ralph nader, the guy he supported to be our president in 2000, literally saying that he has lost his mind and gone insane and needs help. he actually said this, he attacked this poor bastard on tv, and obviously no one will give nader the chance to fat back. i thought that was really fucked up, i guess michael moore really is a prick. no real surprise there, after all, now he is in show business.

Not Ozymandias
11-02-2004, 01:07 PM
God, you're an asshole.

Moose
11-02-2004, 01:09 PM
i guess your talking to me...explain further please, i know that i am, but just explain it from your point of view.

Not Ozymandias
11-02-2004, 01:11 PM
michael moore is fat...
For starters.

Moose
11-02-2004, 01:12 PM
well he is.

Not Ozymandias
11-02-2004, 01:12 PM
This message is hidden because Moose is on your ignore list.

Moose
11-02-2004, 01:15 PM
.........sad.

Uncle SteveO
11-02-2004, 03:48 PM
Incorrect, before you make lies like this, I expect you to substantiate them.

Secondly Hezbollah, I believe is only called a terrorist group by the US and Israel. Anyone who has any actual knowledge to their activities would be hesitant to call them that. Since they are much more similar to an army than any loosely-linked coalition like Al-Qaida. But heaven forbid you do some research or I don't know....read something with a critical eye.
.

Arafat got his start killing innocent civilians and hijacking planes. He is also responsible for the murder of members of the Israeli Olympics team when it was in Germany.
What is your definition of a terrorist? How much do you know about the start of Hezbolla and the flight of the Palestinians when they expected the Jews to get pushed into the sea by the "Friends of the Palestinian People".
Whatever you think about the state of Israel and the inequities toward the Palestinians I am at a loss to understand your meaning.

wheelchairman
11-02-2004, 03:53 PM
Where did I say anything about my own opinion?

Uncle SteveO
11-02-2004, 04:12 PM
In all honesty, you got me there.

SicN Twisted
11-03-2004, 04:04 PM
Uncle Steve-O, your propaghanda smells on your breath. Arafat's simply a world leader who takes desisive measures to defend his country against the terrorist Israeli Army. The Israeli Army and it's illegal occupation of Palestine turn the Middle East into a carbon copy of aparteid South Africa, and you have the nerve to critisize Arafat?

anon
11-03-2004, 04:30 PM
Michael moore....

Demagogue, Propagandist shithead.

One shitty piece in the big political propaganda game.

Zs

wheelchairman
11-04-2004, 12:48 AM
Michael moore....

Demagogue, Propagandist shithead.

One shitty piece in the big political propaganda game.

Zs
Heaven forbid you read this topic and realize that this has to be one of the stupidest replies so far. You could've at least tried to form a good argument.

anon
11-04-2004, 01:24 AM
realize that this has to be one of the stupidest replies so far. You could've at least tried to form a good argument.

Hm . Stupidest... maybe. The fact that its not a polite answer may not make it stupid... The fact that it wont follow the philosophical turnout of the topic may not make it stupid. The opinion itself may be stupid, but thats still my opinion, however stupid it is.

Form a good argument? omg, how? :)
I dont like him (just like i didnt like goebbels, i dont like anyone who is a hardcore propagandist. Propaganda sux no matter which side does it. Its just one of the most disguisting things imo in our corrent society... (well, besides starvation and wars of course)

Zs

ps> Not that I place Moore and Goebbels to the same level. Moore has to do much to reach the power and the knowledge in being a good propagandist.Now he lacks skills what goebbels had. And now i only spoke of propagandist skills. Not badguy skills when working with the nazi germany...

Not Ozymandias
11-04-2004, 04:02 PM
Using the word "propaganda" demonstrates the low quality of your mind. Any political speech or editorial classifies as propaganda.