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Betty
03-01-2005, 05:52 PM
You saw two 13 year old girls (or boys) being intimate?

Personally I'm pretty neutral to the whole gay issue but I thought it would be pretty messed up to see really young people displaying their homosexuality. I've never really thought of it in the context of people less than like... 16/17 years old. Because in theory it's something you are "born" with and you cannot change that (I question whether it's a choice or not but don't really think it should matter even if it is) so it should be okay for even kids to be gay. But hell, at the age I barely knew what it was like to have a crush on the opposite sex. Boys of age 10 still think girls have cooties.

sKratch
03-01-2005, 05:53 PM
Is this what you were scared of posting the other day?

Isolated Fury
03-01-2005, 05:56 PM
I think they have every right to do whatever they want. If they believe that this is what they want to act like, I say let them live. It's really just a matter of what your stance on open homosexuality is. I, personally, could care less. I have 3 gay friends, and it doesn't bother me a bit.

original_psycho
03-01-2005, 05:56 PM
My best friend passionatly kissed another girl this summer and she was 13 then. And she would gladly do it again.

nieh
03-01-2005, 06:00 PM
You saw two 13 year old girls (or boys) being intimate?

Personally I'm pretty neutral to the whole gay issue but I thought it would be pretty messed up to see really young people displaying their homosexuality. I've never really thought of it in the context of people less than like... 16/17 years old. Because in theory it's something you are "born" with and you cannot change that (I question whether it's a choice or not but don't really think it should matter even if it is) so it should be okay for even kids to be gay. But hell, at the age I barely knew what it was like to have a crush on the opposite sex. Boys of age 10 still think girls have cooties.

Well...I think it'd be weird to see two 13 year olds in general being intimate...so that kinda ruins that question.

Betty
03-01-2005, 06:03 PM
Is this what you were scared of posting the other day?

That's not the point. And I wasn't SCARED. Hmph.

Also, it's SO discouraging posting topics when people totally miss the point. Or I just suck and there is no point. Maybe that's why I've posted like 5 topics ever.

Fuck, the reason I said "not PC enough" is not because I CARE about being PC, but because it will get a shitload of "if people want to be gay, let them, blah, blah".

Betty
03-01-2005, 06:04 PM
Well...I think it'd be weird to see two 13 year olds in general being intimate...so that kinda ruins that question.

14 then? 15?

Isolated Fury
03-01-2005, 06:14 PM
I think it's of an "old enough to mean it" rather than a number.

nieh
03-01-2005, 06:16 PM
14 then? 15?

15's a bit less creepy in my mind. I still say at least 16-17 for sex though...but that's just idealism coming through there. I mean...my friend's little sister is 13, and there's no way I can imagine anyone her age being able to handle any of that stuff.

sKratch
03-01-2005, 06:18 PM
That's not the point. And I wasn't SCARED. Hmph.

Also, it's SO discouraging posting topics when people totally miss the point. Or I just suck and there is no point. Maybe that's why I've posted like 5 topics ever.

Fuck, the reason I said "not PC enough" is not because I CARE about being PC, but because it will get a shitload of "if people want to be gay, let them, blah, blah".
Blah I didn't mean it like that. I was just curious. Please un-kill me.

Betty
03-01-2005, 06:20 PM
By "intimate" I don't mean having sex... I just mean having like, an intimate relationship. I didn't want to say "making out" cause then people would talk about girls making out with girls when they're 13.

But that's kinda the point... these people aren't old enough to be having sex, are barely old enough to be in a relationship... and would be firmly convinced they were gay... that seems odd to me.

Betty
03-01-2005, 06:22 PM
Blah I didn't mean it like that. I was just curious. Please un-kill me.

Sorry if that was way too harsh... it wasn't directed at you... it was directed at the stupid answers. But I don't think I have the power to un-kill, so sorry!

Rag Doll
03-01-2005, 06:27 PM
I wouldn't think anything of it. But that could be because more than half the people I knew lost their virginity by 14. *shrug* It just wasn't uncommon to see people in relationships like that (even 2 girls) in 6th and 7th grade.

nieh
03-01-2005, 06:29 PM
By "intimate" I don't mean having sex... I just mean having like, an intimate relationship. I didn't want to say "making out" cause then people would talk about girls making out with girls when they're 13.

But that's kinda the point... these people aren't old enough to be having sex, are barely old enough to be in a relationship... and would be firmly convinced they were gay... that seems odd to me.

Yeah, I know you didn't mean sex by that, I just threw in the "16-17 for sex" thing randomly. 15 is about when I think people are normally about ready to start dealing with that stuff.

Anyway, is this all a hypothetical thing or have you seen kids like that? Cause I've never seen anyone that young saying they're gay...but then again when I was that age I lived in a bubble, so who knows.

nieh
03-01-2005, 06:33 PM
I wouldn't think anything of it. But that could be because more than half the people I knew lost their virginity by 14.

That's rather unsettling for me. Everytime I hear about people getting into sex or drugs or what have you at like 12-13, I'm just like "fuck it, I don't want kids". But I kinda do...so I have to find someplace to move where people are less likely to get involved with that stuff so young.

DirtyMagical
03-01-2005, 06:35 PM
First I thought: "hmmm... i guess that would be kind of strange."
Then I realized I know people like that. so nevermind, I wouldn't notice the whole age thing much.

I'd probably just assume that they are older than they are.

DirtyMagical
03-01-2005, 06:38 PM
That's rather unsettling for me. Everytime I hear about people getting into sex or drugs or what have you at like 12-13, I'm just like "fuck it, I don't want kids". But I kinda do...so I have to find someplace to move where people are less likely to get involved with that stuff so young.


Hahaha! This reminded me of a time my mom said: "We'll have to move to some really really small town to get you away from the drug scene."
I wasn't even doing any at the time.=/

nieh
03-01-2005, 06:40 PM
Hahaha! This reminded me of a time my mom said: "We'll have to move to some really really small town to get you away from the drug scene."
I wasn't even doing any at the time.=/

pfft. Really really small towns are just about as bad as really really big cities but for different reasons. Suburbs are where it's at.

DirtyMagical
03-01-2005, 06:46 PM
pfft. Really really small towns are just about as bad as really really big cities but for different reasons. Suburbs are where it's at.

Exactly.) I just thought it was funny that my mom thought that in a small town there would be no drugs. While small towns are full of harder drugs. People get bored so they shoot up. Some of them. A lot of them.

sKratch
03-01-2005, 06:50 PM
Hah! Suburbs are just as bad too. Because all the kids think they're from the city, or there's that one cool kid who moved up from the city so he's all badass.

ninth
03-01-2005, 06:52 PM
I remember the commercial about kids doing drugs in the suburbs, it was great.

nieh
03-01-2005, 06:53 PM
Hah! Suburbs are just as bad too. Because all the kids think they're from the city, or there's that one cool kid who moved up from the city so he's all badass.

That wasn't the case in the suburb I grew up in, but it is around where I live now. It depends on the vicinity to the city I think.

Camilamazed
03-01-2005, 06:55 PM
Come on guys.they are just discovering their feelings.It doesn't mean they are homo os something.When we are young we want to have all of the sensation and taste them.I don't see any problem in it.It would be a problem if they do it oftenly and I do believe parents should be warned about it.

sKratch
03-01-2005, 07:18 PM
That wasn't the case in the suburb I grew up in, but it is around where I live now. It depends on the vicinity to the city I think.
My home town has that problem ;o
We're 45 minutes from NYC by train, so it's not that close. It's by no means far, though.

Rag Doll
03-01-2005, 08:12 PM
Wayne is a rich white town...and it's so much worse than some other towns here. This weekend there was a rape in one of the high schools after saturday detention. Second known rape in a year. Not to mention the coke & heroin in this town. Bored rich kids can afford some pretty hard stuff =\. And they can from a really young age...

the_GoDdEsS
03-01-2005, 09:46 PM
13 is just too early for anything, no matter what sexual orientation. Although they're probably only discovering it.
Seriously, I was working with 13-15 year olds. And it's just... Gah, or maybe I feel too old.

arak0r
03-01-2005, 09:52 PM
13 is just too early for anything, no matter what sexual orientation. Although they're probably only discovering it.
Seriously, I was working with 13-15 year olds. And it's just... Gah, or maybe I feel too old.
^^truth.

when i was 13 i was still highly fond of legos. actually.. i still am. :(

Rag Doll
03-01-2005, 09:55 PM
legos are awesome. do they still sell them...?

the_GoDdEsS
03-01-2005, 09:55 PM
Yeah, but it might be we were sort of different. Kids are changing a lot.
As 13 year olds we were just chasing each other through the school hall during the break or wrote love letters but it was all oh-so-sweet and platonic.

sKratch
03-01-2005, 10:13 PM
Rich kids do indeed tend to do harder drugs. A friend of mine went to a nearby Catholic school with a pricey bill. Kids snorted lines between classes.

arak0r
03-01-2005, 10:19 PM
legos are awesome. do they still sell them...?
yes. but theyre not as cool anymore :\ they keep making all these stupid movie theme legos. the star wars ones are ok.but blah @ the rest >:|

and it certainly seems as if kids are getting older, younger. kind of absurd when you see a 12 year old girl walking down the street dressed up in a mini skirt, tight top, with double d's (most likely sock stuffed). its more than disturbing. kind of disgusting. lord knows id never let a kid of mine dress like that :|

ninth
03-01-2005, 10:27 PM
The worst is when those kids say stuff like "You know you want some of this." No joke, it happens and that is why I do not work at the mall anymore.

arak0r
03-01-2005, 10:29 PM
The worst is when those kids say stuff like "You know you want some of this." No joke, it happens and that is why I do not work at the mall anymore.
:eek:

ill never forget hearing a kid around maybe 10 years old tellin his mother to fuck off cause she didnt want to buy him a toy

Nina
03-01-2005, 10:33 PM
i remember being thirteen and freaking out when i heard that
one of my classmates had sex already.
i'd most likely feel the same way if it was with a member of
the same sex.
now that i am older, i freak out even more because i understand
better how much of a child you are at that age.
an intimate relationship, however, is not something i'd find
freaky at thirteen. in my opinion its not a question of straight/
gay, but of how far they go.

arak0r
03-01-2005, 10:36 PM
holy criminy its nina :o

dirtybird
03-01-2005, 10:36 PM
Depends on how mature the 13 year old girls are.. but any 2 guys in general is wrong.

arak0r
03-01-2005, 10:37 PM
Depends on how mature the 13 year old girls are.. but any 2 guys in general is wrong.
and how old are you?

dirtybird
03-01-2005, 10:38 PM
Fourteen.. I was kidding anyways. I do think either one would be wrong.

arak0r
03-01-2005, 10:40 PM
because theyre gay, or because of the age?

dirtybird
03-01-2005, 10:50 PM
Mostly the age.. I think all relationships before atleast late in highschool are pointless.

About the gay thing.. I'm not sure whether I approve or not, I know I'm not 100% comfortable with it.. but it's their lives, so it's their decision, and I'm going to leave it alone.

ninth
03-01-2005, 10:54 PM
Once a little darkie boy wearing diapers told me to fuck off when I told him to get out of my yard, true story.

dirtybird
03-01-2005, 10:55 PM
Wow that totally shook my perception on the meaning of life.. don't do that again.. PLEASE! I don't think I could handle it..

Izie
03-01-2005, 11:35 PM
My sister is 14, and the idea of her (or any of her friends for that matter) doing anything of the sort, regardless of gay or straight makes me twitch.

The sad thing is, I know some of those kids HAVE done stuff. It's amazing how much they'll do to be 'cool', it just is. And when you talk to them, it's not like they know why they're doing it, or that there's any idea of love or closeness or anything at all really. Call me traditional, but I always had this idea of having sex when you actually love someone, and are ready for it, and I highly doubt that can be at the age of 13. I knew a lot at the age of 13, my friends did too, but I still found it ick and gross in a way.

And as Camamilazed said, experimenting isn't something strange, so with a guy, with a girl, I don't care, as long as it's not going too far at a too young age, for all the wrong reasons. However, it usually is. And it sucks unbelievably.

arak0r
03-01-2005, 11:41 PM
seems like some people here actually have their heads on straight. imho. not what i expected :D

Tizzalicious
03-02-2005, 02:24 AM
It seems to be "in" her for really young "alternative" girls to be bi-sexual...kinda disturbing if you ask me. Not the whole bi thing, but the fact that they are so young, and because all of them seem to be bi at the moment.

Mota Boy
03-02-2005, 07:29 AM
You saw two 13 year old girls being intimate?
Are they cute? If so, I'd probably be most disturbed by how turned on I got.

And people keep forgetting that the idea of thirteen-year-olds as small children is a fairly recent phenomenon. For the vast majority of human history, our life expectancy didn't go too far north of two decades, so nobody had time for teenage years.

I don't think that it's right for young kids to be screwin' and snorting and cussing and killing, but it annoys me how everyone treats it as a new occurance, as if kids have been innocent for all of human history up until three years ago.

BREAK
03-02-2005, 07:44 AM
The same thing that I'd think if I saw a boy-girl couple "being intimate": Get a room. Call me a prude, but all forms of public affection make me want to puke my pants.

Yeah, so like everyone else here has said, I've known girls that have kissed other girls & stuff before they were old enough to know any better, & it didn't seem to mess them up much. It's not like kids at that age are gonna brutally rape each other up the khyber or anything. Also, I've had crushes on girls since I was 6 years old. I thought that it was NORMAL.

MindlessSelfIndulgent
03-02-2005, 07:57 AM
I think its quite normal. Theyre just experimenting.

Maybe i just misunderstood the topic.

Betty
03-02-2005, 03:42 PM
I don't know...

The point was not about young people having sex, being intimate, etc. I don't really care about that too much.

The point was about the homosexuality, and everybody just says they wouldn't care...

I suppose it's fair to chalk it up to just experimenting... but I wanted to go deeper into the issue.

Like, okay, it's no longer two "younger" kids kissing. (yes, totally hypothetical - but certainly has happened somewhere) But it's two young kids who think they are in a serious relationship. They are in a 1 year gay relationship, and they are 14 years old. This goes beyond experimenting. And if it's experimenting, it's heavy experimenting. And sure, it really doesn't matter, it's their choice. Everybody keeps harping on that, and I agree. But doesn't that seem odd? Doesn't that seem like these people may have some issues? Do you think they could honestly know at that young of an age that they are gay? Without even having experience in love? And if they don't know, do you think there's any concern about the fact that they are behaving that way?

Rag Doll
03-02-2005, 03:54 PM
I knew when I was 5 years old that I was attracted to boys & girls. So no, I don't think 14 is too young to know.

nieh
03-02-2005, 03:58 PM
Like, okay, it's no longer two "younger" kids kissing. (yes, totally hypothetical - but certainly has happened somewhere) But it's two young kids who think they are in a serious relationship. They are in a 1 year gay relationship, and they are 14 years old. This goes beyond experimenting. And if it's experimenting, it's heavy experimenting. And sure, it really doesn't matter, it's their choice. Everybody keeps harping on that, and I agree. But doesn't that seem odd? Doesn't that seem like these people may have some issues? Do you think they could honestly know at that young of an age that they are gay? Without even having experience in love? And if they don't know, do you think there's any concern about the fact that they are behaving that way?

Yeah, I would probably have slightly more hangups in my mind about that than if they were straight. But to play devil's advocate, you could argue "how could two straight 14 year olds in a 1 year long relationship know that they're straight when they're that young?". Everyone has double standards imprinted in their minds about something (and if anyone says they don't they're lying). Things that you can see one person do and not think anything of it, but if you see another person doing it, your mind jumps, even if it's not for more than a second. It doesn't always change the way you treat the people, but for that second you're like "that's...odd". So yeah, it would jump to my mind for a little while, but I'd quickly shut it up with my devil's advocate logic.

coke_a_holic
03-02-2005, 04:01 PM
I see these 2 freshman (about 14) girls making out all the time at school, its funny because theyre like "i love you jenny" "I love you too rebbecca" like the whole time. Theyre like right next to my friends locker. I know one of them and shes pretty cool.

Betty
03-02-2005, 04:09 PM
Nieh, yeah, I agree. It is a double standard. Like I said though, I really don't know my opinion about homosexuality in terms of whether it's a choice or not. Whereas being straight is supposed to be "natural" I guess. So that's the big difference. I think if you're more offended by gay men than women, that's a much much worse double standard.

Maybe I'm just very naive and unexposed to homosexuality cause I don't personally know anybody of that preference. And I only know OF a few people. So I'm not entirely desensitized to it.

The actual story behind it is that I was at this concert and saw these two young girls being really feely and wasn't sure if it was friendly feely or romantic feely and the thought just popped into my head. Like, how bizarre would that be... etc...

nieh
03-02-2005, 04:18 PM
Nieh, yeah, I agree. It is a double standard. Like I said though, I really don't know my opinion about homosexuality in terms of whether it's a choice or not. Whereas being straight is supposed to be "natural" I guess. So that's the big difference. I think if you're more offended by gay men than women, that's a much much worse double standard.

Being gay or straight is nothing more than another character trait. Like everything else, it's caused by genes mixed with environment. It's not a choice just like how I can't choose to love that microwave bacon I got no matter how much other people might.

That analogy sounds very heartless. I like it.

TexasTechRocks
03-02-2005, 04:20 PM
I am fucking 17 and i cant wait to have sex i just want to lose it because i think i am getting alittle to old to be a virgin

dirtybird
03-02-2005, 05:22 PM
I am fucking 17 and i cant wait to have sex i just want to lose it because i think i am getting alittle to old to be a virgin

Chill the fuck out.

Betty
03-02-2005, 06:13 PM
Being gay or straight is nothing more than another character trait. Like everything else, it's caused by genes mixed with environment. It's not a choice just like how I can't choose to love that microwave bacon I got no matter how much other people might.

That analogy sounds very heartless. I like it.

You say that very matter-of-factly. Are there studies? This is a real question... cause I have never come across any. The environment thing makes sense, but the way you are affected by your environment can be controlled/manipulated if you make the effort. I think to a certain extent you CAN choose to love microwave bacon.

Like, me... I am a shy person. But I can overcome that. I can change that aspect of my personality quite a bit. It is still a part of me, but it is not set in stone, it is not the way I HAVE to be.

But something like being born ugly. You can't change that. It is in your genes.

nieh
03-02-2005, 06:34 PM
You say that very matter-of-factly. Are there studies? This is a real question... cause I have never come across any. The environment thing makes sense, but the way you are affected by your environment can be controlled/manipulated if you make the effort. I think to a certain extent you CAN choose to love microwave bacon.

yes, there have been studies, but unfortunately I don't have any references. They're mostly a bunch if random things that I'd read back in high school and a few articles that have popped up here or there along the line. I could try googling, but I'm lacking the energy right now. And how can I choose to love microwave bacon? I tried eating more tonight and it still tastes just as bad to me.


Like, me... I am a shy person. But I can overcome that. I can change that aspect of my personality quite a bit. It is still a part of me, but it is not set in stone, it is not the way I HAVE to be.

But something like being born ugly. You can't change that. It is in your genes.

You're shy, but you can put pressure on yourself to overcome that, but isn't that just for the time being? Once you stop actively putting effort into it, you're still shy, right? And when you are putting the effort into it, it's probably a bit of a struggle, right?
There's some people that talk all the time and never shut up no matter how much everyone wants them to. Naturally they just love to talk, but if they put a conscious effort into it, they can shut themselves up for a while. That doesn't mean that they're a quiet person. As soon as they're in a situation where they don't have to hold back, they'll go right back to talking constanly.
A gay guy can pressure himself into having sex and a relationship with a girl, but that doesn't change the fact that naturally he's gay. And unlike pressuring yourself to be not-shy for a little while here and there, or pressuring yourself to not constantly be talking while you're at work, there's no real reason for them to struggle with themselves to be with a girl if they naturally want to be with a guy.

Betty
03-02-2005, 10:53 PM
Yes... and no...

You argue that no matter how much effort you put into something, you will still be that way.

But if the way you are was caused by your environment in the first place, it can definitely be un-caused as well. But usually things like this happen when you're younger so it's much more difficult to change. But I certainly don't think it's impossible. I think I could possibly totally eliminate my shyness. I may be crazy, but I'd like to think I am in control of most aspects of my personality.

Obviously I'm not saying this is TRUTH, but it's a possibility I consider. I'm just surprised at how you say it's one way and only one way. Maybe I'm just way too much of a fence sitter.

nieh
03-03-2005, 05:05 AM
Yes... and no...

You argue that no matter how much effort you put into something, you will still be that way.

But if the way you are was caused by your environment in the first place, it can definitely be un-caused as well. But usually things like this happen when you're younger so it's much more difficult to change. But I certainly don't think it's impossible. I think I could possibly totally eliminate my shyness. I may be crazy, but I'd like to think I am in control of most aspects of my personality.

Obviously I'm not saying this is TRUTH, but it's a possibility I consider. I'm just surprised at how you say it's one way and only one way. Maybe I'm just way too much of a fence sitter.

I wasn't trying to say that's the ONLY way. There are certainly people that are gay based on hedonism. They had a bad experience (be it as a child or older) with the opposite sex and are no longer able to associate with them in a sexual way. They would kind of become gay by default in those instances. If you poke around in their head long enough, you could probably find the root and "fix" it (if you want to call it that), but that's not what it is for most people. Most people are gay because they're just naturally attracted to the same sex the same way you or I are just naturally attracted to the opposite sex. I'm late for work now though so this will have to be more brief than I wanted it to be.

MindlessSelfIndulgent
03-03-2005, 05:27 AM
I don't know...

They are in a 1 year gay relationship, and they are 14 years old.


Its the cool thing to do.

Mota Boy
03-03-2005, 08:54 AM
You say that very matter-of-factly. Are there studies?

This is the study that convinced me. (http://12.31.13.116/HealthNews/Reuters/20040308elin014.htm) Not so much the study itself, just the realization that there were gay sheep.

I don't think I'd have a problem with it. I mean, Hell, what's the worst that could happen if they were wrong? They wake up one day at the age of sixteen and go "Oh my God, I'm straight!"?

nieh
03-03-2005, 02:54 PM
This is the study that convinced me. (http://12.31.13.116/HealthNews/Reuters/20040308elin014.htm) Not so much the study itself, just the realization that there were gay sheep.

I was thinking more about the studies on gay cows that popped up kinda recently...but that probably works even better.