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Mota Boy
04-05-2005, 11:09 AM
You're inviting everyone from that gay-ass classics board you joined a little while ago to come here, aren't you? I demand that it go both ways. Post the address of that board so that we can send a flood of whiny prepubescent mongoloids to interrupt discusions on Catullus with poorly-articulated diatribes about how unfair life is and how boys are mean/girls think they're ugly.

Endymion
04-05-2005, 11:10 AM
that would be a lot of fun.

Noodles is gay
04-05-2005, 11:10 AM
*muhahahah*

NEVER! I didn't tell people to come here - i merely said that people here dislike people who talk about classics.

foxy
04-05-2005, 11:12 AM
hello

.....................

the_GoDdEsS
04-05-2005, 11:12 AM
Hahaha, I almost choked on my drink just now. What an idea!

Noodles is gay
04-05-2005, 11:14 AM
Anyway i can't tell you because it's a sacred place for those who share a love of the classics to go without fear of being discriminate against/laughed at.

And you'll ruin its tranquility. :mad:

wheelchairman
04-05-2005, 11:46 AM
Here you are!
www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=98140
www.thestudentroom.co.uk/t99236.html
www.thestudentroom.co.uk/ showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=98140
That wasn't particularly difficult.

P.S. Jenny is Euripides.

Jesus
04-05-2005, 11:59 AM
hehe, can't be as fun though as the Westlife board ages ago. Now that I think of that, where did Kayleigh go to? and Twisted By Design?

Vera
04-05-2005, 02:00 PM
Westlife board had fanfiction OMG. It rocked the cash bash.

We should send a small army to GnR boards in revenge of the GnR invasion back when the Offspring did that prank.

Oh oh oh! We could be radical and post stories of heterosexual love on those boards. XD

wheelchairman
04-05-2005, 02:24 PM
I'm so hardcore I remember the Smashing Pumpkins invasion of the BBS when the offspring released their first CO1 single on MP3 for free.

Endymion
04-05-2005, 03:24 PM
ugh, the smashing pumpkins fags... and a lot of people bitched at dexsgirl 'cause she was/is a smashing pumpkins fan.

iflogmymolly
04-05-2005, 03:27 PM
You're inviting everyone from that gay-ass classics board you joined a little while ago to come here, aren't you? I demand that it go both ways. Post the address of that board so that we can send a flood of whiny prepubescent mongoloids to interrupt discusions on Catullus with poorly-articulated diatribes about how unfair life is and how boys are mean/girls think they're ugly.

Lovely idea....I like it. :)

Περικλες
04-05-2005, 03:48 PM
You're inviting everyone from that gay-ass classics board you joined a little while ago to come here, aren't you? I demand that it go both ways. Post the address of that board so that we can send a flood of whiny prepubescent mongoloids to interrupt discusions on Catullus with poorly-articulated diatribes about how unfair life is and how boys are mean/girls think they're ugly.

It's not 'gay-ass'! :mad:

And anyway CLASSICS ROCKS! :D

Περικλες
04-05-2005, 04:17 PM
People here dislike people who talk about classics IN EVERY FUCKING POST, REGARDLESS OF THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION!

hey man, classics rocks and it should be talked about in every single post :D :D

wheelchairman
04-05-2005, 04:24 PM
I'm all for education for the sake of education. But it's truly useless.

Περικλες
04-05-2005, 04:36 PM
My psychic powers are picking something up. What's that? I'm reading your vibe... yes? *gasps*

You are a very unhappy person that feels uncomfortable with human interaction in the real world. Your overwhelming denial of your subpar intelligence has forced you into the world of obsolete and archaic education, in a desperate attempt to support your delusions with some passable evidence of being smarter than other people. You will ultimately be remembered in death as being a burden to society, and few will attend your memorial service.

just shut up

the classics are not obsolete! they're very much alive within society!

Isolated Fury
04-05-2005, 04:43 PM
just shut up

the classics are not obsolete! they're very much alive within society!

No...They really aren't. I like classics. But I'm not afraid to admit that it is a dying interest.

Vera
04-06-2005, 04:51 AM
Mythology exists in culture. Latin exists in science.

I'm not against studying it but I think some classics students I've discussed with have sort of dedicated their life to worshipping ancient times instead of focusing on the context the past appears in today.

Overall, I don't see the point in learning Ancient Greek.

Noodles is gay
04-06-2005, 06:53 AM
I'm not against studying it but I think some classics students I've discussed with have sort of dedicated their life to worshipping ancient times instead of focusing on the context the past appears in today.

Overall, I don't see the point in learning Ancient Greek.

:o Well ancient times had a lot which we miss out on nowadays! They were the 'golden ages' although i'm gonna shut up now before i annoy you all as much as Περικλες.

And i'll ignore the last comment.

Vera
04-06-2005, 07:04 AM
Sure, culture and science flourished in those days and the Romans invented a shitload of things, but on the other hand, some people were slaves and others just had a very shitty life.

So if by "golden ages" you mean, "omg things were soooo much better than today", I disagree.

Noodles is gay
04-06-2005, 07:18 AM
Sure, culture and science flourished in those days and the Romans invented a shitload of things, but on the other hand, some people were slaves and others just had a very shitty life.

So if by "golden ages" you mean, "omg things were soooo much better than today", I disagree.

nah; i agree with what i said.

"We love beauty, but we're not effeminate; we cultivate the mind, but we're not physically weak." - Perikles (according to Thucydides).

A love of beauty and cultivation of the mind is what people today need to do. :cool:

Slaves didn't have that much of a bad life - some of them were more well-off than people today! Besides, a load of people today have a 'very shitty life'.

Mota Boy
04-06-2005, 08:41 AM
Nig, The average lifespan during Roman times was about 25 to 30 years, 'nuff said.

And this is the best part of the thread:

The charges.

You are a very unhappy person that feels uncomfortable with human interaction in the real world. Your overwhelming denial of your subpar intelligence has forced you into the world of obsolete and archaic education, in a desperate attempt to support your delusions with some passable evidence of being smarter than other people. You will ultimately be remembered in death as being a burden to society, and few will attend your memorial service.
The response.

the classics are not obsolete!

Noodles is gay
04-06-2005, 08:46 AM
Heheheh - hilarious the way you did that! :D


Nig, The average lifespan during Roman times was about 25 to 30 years, 'nuff said.


You sure? :confused: hummm...well lots of people lived far past that.

wheelchairman
04-06-2005, 08:53 AM
Heheheh - hilarious the way you did that! :D




You sure? :confused: hummm...well lots of people lived far past that.
There is nothing grand about Ancient Rome or Greece. The direct autocracy of the rich over the poor.

ommmgggzorz autocracy cums fr0m gr33kl33tsp34k!

Noodles is gay
04-06-2005, 08:59 AM
There is nothing grand about Ancient Rome or Greece. The direct autocracy of the rich over the poor.

ommmgggzorz autocracy cums fr0m gr33kl33tsp34k!

Well I admire the Athenian and Spartan systems of government more than any other, and i don't agree with the emperors at all.

"Our government is an original one, modelled on none of our neighbours...We are called a democracy because the whole people and not a minority rule; in the law courts everyone is equal before the law. We appoint our public officials with referance to their merit and ability, not their family background. No one, not even if he is poverty stricken is kept out of politics if he has something to contribute" - some of the greatest words ever uttered! :cool:


i should really get an English translation of that it'd make life a hell of a lot easier.... ;)

Sorry; couldn't resist!

wheelchairman
04-06-2005, 09:13 AM
It says something, that the quote doesn't find poverty as a form of oppression by the economics of the system.

The Spartans are the heroes to many modern-day fascists. With their Eugenics (killing 'defective' babies.) And strict military code, with an almost as strict political and class system,.



The best will always be,
The Irish Republic of Plaka,
where Tom lives.
http://www.klik.gr/182/

Noodles is gay
04-06-2005, 09:16 AM
Meh; i still admire the Spartans' society. Oh and it was Pericles (just in case you want to use it some time in the future whilst you're talking about politics or summat!).

YAY! Greek porn magazine site!!

wheelchairman
04-06-2005, 03:14 PM
Or, you could watch me not give a crap about typical greek nationalist mumbo-jumbo.

Isolated Fury
04-06-2005, 03:27 PM
Or, you could watch me not give a crap about typical greek nationalist mumbo-jumbo.

I call for a round of applause...

*Stands*
*Shows WCM appreciation*
*Sits*

HornyPope
04-06-2005, 03:54 PM
You braindead communists and sugar coated 'socialists' scream of equality without the slightest regard to the circumstances in question. Know that slavery existed and rightfully so in the mind of every man of that age not because of the desire to control and exploit and get rich at the expense of others, but because these slaves were weak-spirited and vanquished men and it was only normal to assign them to hard labour duty. Not one mogul had tens of thousands of slaves to him alone, rather the slaves were devided like any other prize of victory among the victorious soldiers with the generals, naturally, recieving the highest reward, following by the outstanding and brave soldiers and finishing with simple swordsman. The Spartans, for example, since you focus primarily on them in your discussion, had already an abundance of slaves in Messenians and didn't bother to venture any further in the Peninsula or elsewhere for the great majority of the time. They didn't even have a currency, or a fleet, and when they finally "caught up" with the rest of Greeks in that respect, it lead to their ultimate undoing. Know also that all Spartan soldiers were known as "equals" in that their collective land and belongings were split among all soldiers. They even had two rotating kings and probably the most efficient system of check and balance for they never in their 800 years of history had one civil war. How many nations today can beat this record?

Even the Athenians, who in comparision to Sparta was much imperialist in their actions and intentions, weren't home to the oligarchs we witness today. Compare your net worth to that of Bill Gates. Never such a disparity existed even in the height of Greek empire. Not even the Roman emperors directly controlled such wealth as the Fortune 500 companies enjoy. I'm not implying that you defend the status quo in the 21st century--i'm merely comparing the concept of 'equality' in the "slaveless" world of today to that of the old, dark, 'barbaric' times. Action were result of men's strenght and ego, not his hunger for wealth. Slavery thus was a natural enviroment for defeated poor souls.

Men weren't equal by decree because it was unthinkable then, and still somewhat crazy today, that two persons should be equated when one can't hack a sword or wield a shield. Your worth was directly proportionate to your abilities, and not because someone decided that it's humane to give all the same status lest we feel guilty about it.

JoY
04-06-2005, 04:45 PM
Perikles, seriously... it's gay enough in itself, that you came to post here the way you did & with the postername you have.

I think it's an excellent idea.

JoY
04-06-2005, 05:15 PM
You sure? :confused: hummm...well lots of people lived far past that.
he's sure & no, they didn't.

I agree with Sanni. why stuffing your head with information, that can in no way contribute to your further life, or be useful in any kind of situation? if you want to make acient Greek your hobby, because it 'satisfies' you - fine, then maybe it does contribute to your life in a way. but hobbies & school don't mix. you don't go to school to fingerpaint either, now do you?

you can study some things purely for their beauty, but then STILL studying acient Greek is pretty goddam worthless, when it comes to every day life. I believe that school should teach you things, that can make you move forward in life. theoretical information you might one day need to bring into practice. (also depending on what you want to do & who you want to become)

look, it's nice to know where words come from. & many find their basis in Latin. but it's no knowledge you'll ever put to use.

there once was a time, that I had the illusion Latin would be helpful for my medicine studies. I can assure NOTHING in my entire schoolcareer has been less useful for these studies. believe me, eventually, after even one class of anatomy, I would've figured out "sinister" means left & "dexter" (OMG!) means right. (besides the fact it's pretty common knowledge) the rest we learn in medicine is NOTHING any Latin study would ever teach you.

Marcus et Cornelia in horto ambulant. Subito Cornelia anulus inguinalis profundus videt. "Marce, Marce! anulus inguinalis profundus video!!" clamat.

see my point?
& no, I didn't have to look that up. & I KNOW I didn't adjust "anulus inguinalis profundus", seeing the fact it's object. too damn lazy.

Noodles is gay
04-06-2005, 05:26 PM
he's sure & no, they didn't.

I must admit that I don’t know the life expectancy of an average Roman/Greek, but I do know of a hell of a lot who lived far beyond 25/30.


I agree with Sanni. why stuffing your head with information, that can in no way contribute to your further life, or be useful in any kind of situation? if you want to make acient Greek your hobby, because it 'satisfies' you - fine, then maybe it does contribute to your life in a way. but hobbies & school don't mix. you don't go to school to fingerpaint either, now do you?

you can study some things purely for their beauty, but then STILL studying acient Greek is pretty goddam worthless, when it comes to every day life. I believe that school should teach you things, that can make you move forward in life. theoretical information you might one day need to bring into practice. (also depending on what you want to do & who you want to become)

School and hobbies is the best mix – that way you do something you enjoy and are therefore more likely to succeed at it. No, I ‘don't go to school to fingerpaint’ but then again, I don’t.

You say that you can study things for their beauty – well Greek can be beautiful. There are many great works of literature which are much more appreciable when read in their original language, plus the language itself is very beautiful even to look at or read aloud.

Say I wanna be a classics lecturer or an archaeologist in Greece – classics is gonna be pretty damn useful, no?


Marcus et Cornelia in horto ambulant. Subito Cornelia anulus inguinalis profundus videt. "Marce, Marce! anulus inguinalis profundus video!!" clamat.

see my point?
& no, I didn't have to look that up. & I KNOW I didn't adjust "anulus inguinalis profundus", seeing the fact it's object. too damn lazy.

heheheh – well done. :)

EDIT: looked it up; life-expectancy of a Roman = 40 years. Meh.

compare this with:

In Sierra Leone, the life expectancy of a man is 40 years, and of a woman is 43

hummmm....times haven't changed that much there. :cool:

JoY
04-06-2005, 06:05 PM
I agree that acient Greek can be beautiful, that's why I used the example.=)

here comes a (stretched, boring) story; my greatest hobby, my one big love & passion I've had since the age of four, is playing the violin. when I was five years old, I told my mother I didn't ever want to make playing that instrument my job, & I still feel that exact way about it. when you turn your hobby into your job, your money, your income starts depending on it. it becomes something you *have* to do for a living. I've thought about going to the conservatory & my teacher thought it would be an excellent idea (at the time, I haven't had a teacher in 8 years), but I really feel I'd betray myself & my passion for the instrument. (sounds rather gay)

when I was nine/ten, I was absolutely convinced I'd become a writer. I loved to write stories & I loved to draw aswell, so I figured I could be my own illustrator. people gave me compliments, when I sent in a little story some writer invited me over, my drawing teacher had an entire future pictured with me as a painter/whatever - it seemed lovely! but then I realised that I'd have to stand out in the crowd - that my creative outbursts would have to live up to expectations & a certain standard, which wouldn't be mine, but that of the public. I realised that I'd have to bring out a book every once in a while. that I'd *have* to write, inspired or not, feeling like it or not. & it had always been something without obligations. something that gave me wings to fly myself into fantasy. something I could feel free with.

as you probably know, I'd love to become a doctor. not because helping sick people is my hobby, but it's something I'd love to do. I'd love to make myself useful for others, especially to ones who need it the most. my motives to study this are irrelevant, but do you see the difference I'm trying to point out? I guess it isn't a very clear difference, but either way... hobbies free you from obligations. job & also school is the exact oposite of that.

I really hope you -do- see where I'm coming from.
to return to the subject; acient Greek & Latin are languages of fascinating times. really, I'll fully give it that. but unless your interests with these 'dead languages' are historical & you want to translate Latin/acient Greek texts, so you can unravel history & how it has influenced us today... I really don't see the use. but I'll admit; what I just mentioned -is- a use.

Betty
04-06-2005, 07:27 PM
As usual Bella, I can only agree wholeheartedly.

I also like how you discussed the separation of hobby and job. It think it can also be bad when people make their job their one and only hobby. I just can't imagine it being good being interested in only one thing in all aspects of your life. And it's true that it is nice to keep your hobbies hobbies so that they never become burdens. I suppose it's never really been an issue for me, but I never thought about it like that either.

HP, that was really interesting. Generally I find some of that history stuff kinda boring, but I enjoyed reading that, thanks.

Vera
04-07-2005, 03:52 AM
I'd say the ideal of democracy has changed from those days to the better. Whether it works and where it works today is another thing.

Another reason why I oppose thinking the Ancient times are teh omg coolth is because of women's position in that society. Oppressed, yes, feminist bullshit, blah blah blah, but the fact was that girls around 14-15 years old would marry guys in their 30's, have a few babies and then stay at home. In Sparta women were more free to go but that was mostly just due the men not being home and constantly dying in battles.


scream of equality without the slightest regard to the circumstances in question. Know that slavery existed and rightfully so in the mind of every man of that age not because of the desire to control and exploit and get rich at the expense of others, but because these slaves were weak-spirited and vanquished men and it was only normal to assign them to hard labour duty.

Yeah, but does that make it okay? Does that mean some Greek was all "yay I'm a slave, whoo!". No, don't think so.

I'd say something about Dusky's "omg my homeland! fuck u!"-comment but since she has me ignored, it'd be pretty pointless.

wheelchairman
04-07-2005, 04:00 AM
Hornypope,

Of course the capitalist society has more wealth concentrated in fewer hands. That is largely due to the industrialization and the capitalist economy. It's like trying to say the feudal economy was more progressive than the capitalist economy. There was more equality, yes, but there was oppression in different forms than economic. The ruling class was cemented in the system firmly, I know you are aware of that.

You can apologize for whatever system you like, make excuses about the historical context of the land and whatnot, but I'd still prefer to live here, today, than in Sparta of Ancient Greece, no matter how much you sugar-coat it and speak of golden age this, and golden age that. Of course that was more NIG who spoke of golden age and whatnot.

JoY
04-07-2005, 08:47 AM
As usual Bella, I can only agree wholeheartedly.

I also like how you discussed the separation of hobby and job. It think it can also be bad when people make their job their one and only hobby. I just can't imagine it being good being interested in only one thing in all aspects of your life. And it's true that it is nice to keep your hobbies hobbies so that they never become burdens. I suppose it's never really been an issue for me, but I never thought about it like that either.

thank you, chicka. =)

Vera
04-07-2005, 09:38 AM
Might wanna ask the Sierra Leonians how fully they're living their short lives at the moment.

From what I know that place is a very poor, politically unstable place that only just came out of a 11 year civil war in 2002. Overall, not much cultural blossoming happening there.

HornyPope
04-07-2005, 04:22 PM
Another reason why I oppose thinking the Ancient times are teh omg coolth is because of women's position in that society. Oppressed, yes, feminist bullshit, blah blah blah, but the fact was that girls around 14-15 years old would marry guys in their 30's, have a few babies and then stay at home.

What else would you have women do? Cut down trees, fight wars, build houses, hunt? Women were only subjected thus because there was no other purpose to them. It was natural then that the only tasks they had left was to take care of the household (which includes a wide range of duties like handling slaves, taking care of finances), oversee the operations in the field and of course raise kids, which is a very capital responsability in my mind.

Know that for eight centuries no Spartan women ever saw an enemy's camp smoke. Never underestimate the peacefull life where you're not subject to foreign soldiers pillaging all wealth and raping you and your daughters.


Yeah, but does that make it okay? Does that mean some Greek was all "yay I'm a slave, whoo!". No, don't think so.

There is no "okay" in this context because "okay" implies relativity between good and bad and you cannot judge the well of society without understanding the circumstances--which you don't. Slavery was a result of one society triumphing over others where the losers were subject to forced labour. It was natural and all parties involved were aware of that. Stop thinking in your plebian 21st century terms "omg poor slaves waaa waaa".


Of course the capitalist society has more wealth concentrated in fewer hands. That is largely due to the industrialization and the capitalist economy. It's like trying to say the feudal economy was more progressive than the capitalist economy.

That's why I said don't compare the morals of today's culture to the days of old.


The ruling class was cemented in the system firmly, I know you are aware of that.

No, the ruling Houses and subsequant nobility came after the rise of Christiandom already through the middle ages and beyond. Until then it was fairly open to any citizen having fullfilled his military duties to go nearly as high in the heirarchial order as he possibly can.


Oh and on the topic of life span, it's only short if you take into account the death at birth and child mortality. But if we look at men who grew past 13 years old, i'm sure they lived, on average, somewhere until 40 years old.

Noodles is gay
04-07-2005, 05:10 PM
I also like how you discussed the separation of hobby and job. It think it can also be bad when people make their job their one and only hobby. I just can't imagine it being good being interested in only one thing in all aspects of your life. And it's true that it is nice to keep your hobbies hobbies so that they never become burdens.

Classicists do have other interests!!! I can use myself as an example; yes I love classics and am willing to devote my life to the study of it but I have other things that I like to do in my spare time which aren’t remotely connected to classics at all. For instance reading (not necessarily classical texts), playing bass guitar, chess, squash or badminton – not remotely classical!


Know that for eight centuries no Spartan women ever saw an enemy's camp smoke.

Methinks somebody’s been reading ’gates of fire’ ;)

About the slave issue; for the most part, they were NOT treated particularly badly! Again let me quote:

“If it were standard practice that a citizen should be entitled to strike a slave it would cause chaos, since people would forever be striking fellow citizens by mistake, thinking that they were slaves. And that’s because the people of Athens are no better dressed than the slaves, nor do they look any better off…slaves are important at Athens...and that is why there is freedom of speech between them and their masters.” [Old Oligarch 1.10 ff]

No doubt the Old Oligarch exaggerates to make his point, but the same sort of picture is given by Aristophanes in his comedies.


For the record (seeing as WCM did it); I would prefer to have been a Spartan woman in the 6th century BC, than live now, or at any other time in history. And I assure you all that this isn’t just the thoughts of an obsessive kid – I have considered this issue for a long time.

Duskygrin: cool & I know. :)

HornyPope
04-07-2005, 06:18 PM
Methinks somebody’s been reading ’gates of fire’

Nope, never got around to read the book in full. I might have read a summery somewhere of it, together with other pieces about Sparta I ran across, and the phrase stuck in my mind--if indeed this phrase was used in the book. I don't even know.

And who gives a shit about how they were treating the slaves. They were slaves for crying out loud.


HP, that was really interesting. Generally I find some of that history stuff kinda boring, but I enjoyed reading that, thanks.

Anytime.

Betty
04-07-2005, 06:30 PM
Classicists do have other interests!!!

Wasn't referring to you when I was talking about that stuff, just to be clear.

Vera
04-08-2005, 06:47 AM
Women still weren't considered fully capable and functional human beings. Making them less equal than today.

And yes, of course I'm valuating societies of the history because that's just what a person does. Because when I think to myself, would I like to live in that society, I see how it compares to the society today and decide whether or not I would like to live in it, based on everything I know about it.

That was my viewpoint for this entire argument. Not that today's society rocks hardcore and the ancient times were absolute horseshit, but in my opinion, my status in that society and the life I would've most probably lead, are not the things I would want.

So that's my view of studying classics. Interesting, yes, could be. A good base for studying something else, archeology, literature, philosophy, politics, what have you, yes. I don't want to call anyone's major useless but it *is* kind of a thing from the past.

And I really just cannot understand why someone would want to live in those days or worship them as the ultimate point of mankind. Call me an hegelist, but I think that all the tough times that humanity has faced since those days has lead to significant progress in all sorts of fields. There is no way to say "this is the end, this is our final achievement", of course not, we will still develop and we can develop for the worst or the better, depending on what choices we make. The Greeks came up with a lot of incredible things, from theater to science and Romans invented roads, which was pretty hot, but worshipping the old days, holding them above everything else, that doesn't quite ..make sense to me.