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SicN Twisted
04-14-2005, 01:00 PM
Seriously, his sentence is incredibly unfair. The "murder" he committed was the accidental result of a lover's quaral and his remorse is unquestionable. He's guilty of involuntary manslaughter, not the cold blooded murder that he's in jail for. If it wasn't a beloved celebrity that died, his sentence wouldn't be any severe. He's a social, political, and musical hero and his innovations should be appreciated - his crime shouldn't be forgotten, but it shouldn't ruin his life.

HornyPope
04-14-2005, 01:32 PM
Dude he beat his wife to death with his bare arms. It's not like he punched her once and she fell off the stairs. That's pretty brutal.

Besides, he got only like 8 years according to my sources. He'll get out in 6 probably. That's fairly light for a homocide case.

Sinister
04-14-2005, 06:18 PM
who gives a damn ? btw salut horny, tired of you m'a dit que t'était québécois !

SicN Twisted
04-14-2005, 08:48 PM
The death occured because he backhanded her and her head hit something. If she wasn't a celebrity, he'd serve less then two years - also, the 8 years I believe is pending on his extradition, and last I checked, the Lithuanians aren't playing ball.

RXP
04-15-2005, 12:37 AM
That would be involuntary manslaughter here because of provocation. But the sentence would prolly be the same. Just a matter of stiga associated with 'murder'

SicN Twisted
04-15-2005, 12:49 AM
I don't think you're right about that. You're country does it's best to wait on my country hand and foot, and that includes incorperating a similar court system. If it wasn't for the freak occurence, of Marie's head hitting the base of the staircase, it would not have even been important enough to make the cops miss happy hour. A freak occurence caused her death, and in the US, or any EU country, it would've been tried as such. The only reason his sentence is so severe is because the Lithuanians were the ones who initially tried him, plus the victim is famous.

RXP
04-15-2005, 01:25 AM
Homicide Act 1957 s2



Where on a charge of murder there is evidence on which the jury can find that the person charged was provoked (whether by things done or by things said or by both together) to lose his self-control, the question whether the provocation was enough to make a reasonable man do as he did shall be left to be determined by the jury; and in determining that question the jury shall take into account everything both done and said according to the effect which, in their opinion, it would have on a reasonable man.


Most important stautory provisions for provication

1) Person was provoked (things said, things done)
2) The provocation caused him to lose his self control
3) And a reasonable man would have acted in a simlar way.

The courts have held that lovers tiffs are provoking events. In Davies 1975. And a variou sstring of women murder convictions being overturned to involuntary manslaughter.

From what you said he fits the courts interpreation of s2 of the 1957 Act.

Furthermore, from what you've said under English law there would, in my view, be no charge of murder either. (you see you are charged with murder and plead provocation to get it down to manslaughter).

For murder there needs to be either implied or express malice. There was certainly not express malice (intent to kill) and implied malice would be a jump because if she died cuase she bashed her head on something the prosecution would find it hard to establish intent to cause serious harm. It was the inadvertant fall that should kill her and under English law what a defendant ought to have foreseen is irrelvant (Cunningham). The guy just back handed his wife and she fell there is no way he had foresight of certainty of either harm or death.

In all likihood on the facts you've told me under English law it would be manslaughter.

ANd the English law does not follow from the US. wtf. YOUR law follows from ours. I could write an essay on what it doesn't. From the law of Trusts and Equitable obligations to matters in the criminal law like rape and murder. Don't confuse political unity with legal unity. The law is seperate from politics.

HornyPope
04-15-2005, 01:59 AM
I didn't know the circumstances of her death. You sure about the staircase, Sky?



who gives a damn ? btw salut horny, tired of you m'a dit que t'était québécois !

Je to connais pas. Mais salut quand meme.

SicN Twisted
04-15-2005, 02:37 AM
Your entire (fake) democracy is modelled after our (fake) democracy. Every asset of your electoral process, aside from the parliament, is based on ours. Political law, so to speak philibusters, recalls, electoral methods in vote counting, is a piece by piece model of the American one. I don't know if this also applies to criminal law, but I'm assuming it does. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and that's irrelevent. English criminal law is similar enough to American criminal law that you have an extradition tready with us, fuck we don't even have one with Canada because their laws have too many differences. That's irrelevent - Whatever differences English law might have with American law, English law is almost exactly the same as French law, except you're a bit more lax on marijuana.

In any case, Involuntary Manslaughter , any most western countries, would be the charge applied to a driver who causes a collision and kills someone in the car he hits. This usually doesn't warrant ten years in prison, and I don't think Bertrand deserves ten years in prison for smacking his girlfriend in the face.

RXP
04-15-2005, 03:19 AM
See there's another way we differ. We have a Dangerous Driving Offences Act (I forgot the act name). I just proved a big difference in the criminal law, that fucker woudln't even be guilty of murder (on your representation of the facts)

Seriously YOUR based on us. Any legal historian would inform you of this. You evolved from our legal system. It's inherient in yours.

SicN Twisted
04-15-2005, 03:33 AM
You're right actually. My uncle who's a lawyer in England just reaffirmed what you said. I just assumed that you ripped off our court system since you ripped off our democratic process. I concede.

RXP
04-15-2005, 03:52 AM
Thank you for admitting that! Makes a change on this forum.

But you really should read more into the law, it's quite distinct from the politics. A good read is "Marxism and Law" by Collins (A Marxist/Socialist). And this (http://offspringstuff.free.fr/rule_of_law_ep_thompson.rar) chapter by EP Thomson (another Marxist) on the Rule of Law. I uploaded it for WCM a couple weeks ago.

Lithuanian Offspring
04-15-2005, 01:41 PM
The death occured because he backhanded her and her head hit something. If she wasn't a celebrity, he'd serve less then two years - also, the 8 years I believe is pending on his extradition, and last I checked, the Lithuanians aren't playing ball.
If Cantat wasn't a celebrity you wouldn't be talking. I think he got the long end of the stick on that one. Your a little dickwipe, honestly the guy brutally beat his girlfriend. HE BRUTALLY BEAT HER TO DEATH IN LITHUANIA AND THEREFORE THE CRIME HAPPENED IN LITHUANIA AND THEREFORE HE WAS PROSECUTED IN LITHUANIA!! Man, you have mental problems, how do you not get that ("the happened in Lithuania" part)?

SicN Twisted
04-16-2005, 12:35 AM
He's a French citizen and the crime was committed on another French citizen. Why the fuck shouldn't he be tried in his own country?

RXP
04-16-2005, 01:18 AM
Because he broke the laws if the country he broke them in. Duh. He didn't breka any French laws. Unless the French legislate for Lithunia.

SicN Twisted
04-16-2005, 08:56 PM
Most civilized countries in the world have extradition treaties. Plus, his extredition has been approved, it's a moot point.

pf-dsotm-73
04-25-2005, 11:35 AM
Hi I'm doing a school project on Noir Desir, the band is new to me (is good so far!!), I'm trying to find out about the 'murder' etc. but information is hard to come by on the web. Any background information on the incident or the band would be very helpful, but what i would like to know is the latest in terms of extradition to France. It all seems very hazy, I read that they were planning to bring Cantat back last september but based on the forum in guessing that didn't work. Any information at all would be handu thanks!!