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Skorne
04-15-2005, 11:11 AM
Which is better... I myself am a commy... but anarchy... it is a tough call...

SicN Twisted
04-15-2005, 11:24 AM
anarchy and democracy are synonomous.

Noodles is gay
04-15-2005, 11:47 AM
Athenian democracy. I hate this crappy idea of 'democracy' nowadays.

The Talking Pie
04-15-2005, 11:51 AM
A direct democracy won't work unless you declare each [small] town a self-regulating republic. And Hell, it wasn't even the best system in Athens; history has just angelised it because that whole 'cradle of civilisation/democracy' thing can't be at all tainted to our eyes.

Mota Boy
04-15-2005, 11:56 AM
I think we should bring back divine right.

The Talking Pie
04-15-2005, 11:57 AM
Totally :cool:

Noodles is gay
04-15-2005, 12:03 PM
A direct democracy won't work unless you declare each [small] town a self-regulating republic. And Hell, it wasn't even the best system in Athens; history has just angelised it because that whole 'cradle of civilisation/democracy' thing can't be at all tainted to our eyes.

yeah I know it's unpractical nowadays, but the question was which one do I think is the best.

And about the fact you think history ‘just angelised it because that whole 'cradle of civilisation/democracy' thing’, you’re just wrong. History may’ve tried to make it seem perfect to the masses but having read Thucydides (written at the height of the Athenian empire) in the original Greek, I can tell you that the Athenians’ democracy really was very good and a ‘cradle of civilization’ and history hasn’t actually distorted that fact.

The Talking Pie
04-15-2005, 12:07 PM
You do realise the implications of allowing every single man to have a direct input, right? At least in our current system we're presented with choices which are [supposedly] sensible and well-thought-out by those whose profession it is to govern. By opening the floor to the suggestions of the layman (even, or perhaps especially, en masse) you open the floodgates to some terrible possibilities. Because, after all, what man really knows what he needs? Individuals think in selfish terms; what works for the self, not the many.

Noodles is gay
04-15-2005, 12:43 PM
Yes, individuals are selfish but like Perikles said; "if men put themselves first they may profit, however the state will be disadvantaged, and the man will experience great difficulty in succeeding in his own life when the state is in tatters. But if he puts the state first, perhaps disadvantaging himself, he will advantage the state and find it much easier to recoup his loss in a state which is prosperous."

So in ancient times your view was already being thought of and solved, also if a man suggests something truly ridiculous, no one will vote for it and hence the man wouldn't profit. Only propositions in which the state as a whiole benefited would be enforced.

There were people 'in the profession to govern' in Athens! They were usually from prominent families (esp. those who had rejeced the earlier tyrants [Thermistokles & Perikles]) and would make public speeches after which any man could debate the idea and then it would be put to the vote of the people. It was a true democracy!

wheelchairman
04-16-2005, 02:56 PM
The Dictatorship of the Proletariat is the most democratic government on Earth yet.

That of course is a comment on socialism, communism would be far more democratic.

Of course, you are stupid enough to equate democracy = capitalism.

And there are huge differences between Anarchism and Communism, how a person can be caught between the two, is beyond me. I am far more libertarian in my outlook than most communists, but I am certainly nowhere near anarchistic by nature.

Skate Rat 19
04-16-2005, 07:26 PM
Well democracy is as close to anarchy that you can get with also having a stable government. Well, that I know of.

Endymion
04-16-2005, 07:27 PM
i'm a notorious libertarian.

Dead Cheerleader
04-16-2005, 11:13 PM
Aw Noodles is Gay, such beautiful classical references. Socialism in theory is nice but I suppose I kind of like the every-man-for-himself system we have now...Darwinism at its best?

notoriousdoc
04-17-2005, 01:18 AM
the only one free from currupting factors is anarchy
one thing to say...
VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

Norwegian Cat
04-17-2005, 12:14 PM
The Dictatorship of the Proletariat is the most democratic government on Earth yet.

That of course is a comment on socialism, communism would be far more democratic.



Yeah, well no communist goverment has resulted successfull yet. Communsim is the most democratic system that exists yes, but it's impossible to make it come true, because every goverment ALWAYS falls into corruption. Altough Lenin's and Mao's communism were getting close, but i belive that Trotskij would really make it come true... for a short period of time, though...

Skorne
04-17-2005, 12:35 PM
I say we should have world leaders go medieval and fight for power... Bush vs. Blair in an electrified cage... Good Family Fun...

wheelchairman
04-17-2005, 04:25 PM
Yeah, well no communist goverment has resulted successfull yet. Communsim is the most democratic system that exists yes, but it's impossible to make it come true, because every goverment ALWAYS falls into corruption. Altough Lenin's and Mao's communism were getting close, but i belive that Trotskij would really make it come true... for a short period of time, though...
And what about Trotsky would 'really make it come true'? People only tend to like Trotsky simply because they know that Trotsky was in opposition to Stalin.

With any government there is corruption, no one claims that a socialist government is perfect. I'd claim that a socialist government is superior to a bourgeois republic.

One can turn it around and say, that anarchism will never exist simply because to believe in an instantaneous and popular upheaval of a former system and then, enforcement of the new system without any form of government is impossible. The workers, historically, have supported the communists because they know where their class interests lie, despite the good intentions of the anarchist movements (except of course, the anarcho-capitalists.)

Nicole
04-18-2005, 12:26 AM
Democracy with middle of the road government control over business.

nitro123
04-26-2005, 11:37 AM
Well, the joke says:What's the difference between the being and working socialism?
The being socialism doesn't work, working socialism doesn't be. :D
Thats my view.

Not Ozymandias
04-28-2005, 02:27 AM
i'm a notorious libertarian.
Still???

I was hoping college would work its liberalizing magic on you like it did with skratch. :(