PDA

View Full Version : Something that shouldn't go unnoticed in US Politics



wheelchairman
04-22-2005, 03:18 AM
The full bill can be found here:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.520:


Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Supreme Court shall not have jurisdiction to review, by appeal, writ of certiorari, or otherwise, any matter to the extent that relief is sought against an entity of Federal, State, or local government, or against an officer or agent of Federal, State, or local government (whether or not acting in official or personal capacity), concerning that entity's, officer's, or agent's acknowledgment of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.'.

The first thing I dislike, is that this now makes god the Sovereign source of law, liberty, and government.

I mean, one of the things that always was respectable about America in my eyes, was the separation of Church and State (something, certain European countries could learn from). But now this declares that god is the source of law, freedom, and government. *sigh*

Second, it allows for changes to be made in the US' Checks and Balance govermnet system (another thing, which is radically cool about the US, especially after the revolution when they were the first in the world at the time to implement it.).

Let's hope it fails.

Rye
04-22-2005, 08:24 PM
I heard about the bill, and thought it was good they're backing off a little in cases like those, but I had never read it all. Now that you point it out, I agree.

I think the incoorporation of church into state was inevitable, though, because of the way society is today. Church has become a social issue, no matter how you look at it. People will join a certain church just to fit in with their neighbors. Also, what religion or denomination has become a major part in political races. Did you notice how people kept mentioning how Kerry was going to get excommunicated becaue of one of his party's beliefs (that he didn't even agree with) and used it to nail him? When you think about it, that really doesn't have anything to do with a governmental position.

There was also a case near my hometown for a Mayor election, I believe, in the next city earlier. One of the candidates accused the other candidate of being an atheist because she wasn't a part of the same church, although she was a member of another parish. I garuntee that gave candidate number one a big swing of the votes.

All this being said, I do not agree with it at all. This country was founded on the beliefs that church and state should be seperate, and it should stay that way.

Zack
04-22-2005, 09:50 PM
Who really gives a shit about polotics I know that i don't!

Homer
04-22-2005, 09:58 PM
I know a guy named Bill...

Rye
04-22-2005, 10:23 PM
^ and ^^ shouldn't be allowed to live.

Homer
04-22-2005, 10:25 PM
hey, all I care about is Canada... and our Sponsorship scandal

RXP
04-23-2005, 12:47 AM
It won't pass.

lousyskater
04-23-2005, 12:52 AM
saw that one coming.


I mean, one of the things that always was respectable about America in my eyes, was the separation of Church and State (something, certain European countries could learn from). But now this declares that god is the source of law, freedom, and government. *sigh*

wouldn't a bill like this abolish free speech and other freedoms? i mean, wouldn't the government be able to come up with a bunch of laws favoring religions of their choice(christianity of course) and laws that take away freedom from people of different or no faith and the Supreme Court wouldn't be able to do anything about it because it's "God's Law" and they have no jurisdiction over them?

RXP
04-23-2005, 01:34 AM
Also omg implications for legal theory. Natural law theory which has made a big come back since the war if this is enacted will claim victory over positivism. At least in the US sphere.

Rye
04-26-2005, 09:41 PM
It's obviously the Christian god. The president goes to church for show. People vote for candidates based on religion/denomination, most likely bills as well, and the majority of America is Christian. The bill did not say 'your god' or something to that degree, just 'God', with capital letters, insinuating that there is only one god for one religion.

wheelchairman
04-27-2005, 01:50 PM
Yeah fantastic Maria, I'm sure the religious Right of America, was planning that phrasing with the ideal of poly-religious cooperation in mind, and not the ideal of ascerting the existence of only one true God and his dominance over other religions etc.

Furthermore, monotheistic religions generally seem to have similar backwards moralistic views that should not be a part of government policy.

wheelchairman
04-28-2005, 05:22 AM
I don't know, I don't care, you bore me to death. This whole matter is a great, big, vaguely comical bore.

Maria
We often say the same of you. ;)

wheelchairman
04-28-2005, 07:28 AM
What's worse is, 230 years ago, it would've been necessary to specify what they meant. We've actually progressed backwards in our thinking.

wheelchairman
04-28-2005, 08:55 AM
Debunked by what, reagonomics?

I may be an atheist, but I don't think monotheism should have control of a poli-religious society, that is actually, a very liberal sentiment.

It doesn't mean I don't sympathize with certain religious groups either.

Italia311
04-28-2005, 11:38 PM
The full bill can be found here:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.520:



The first thing I dislike, is that this now makes god the Sovereign source of law, liberty, and government.

I mean, one of the things that always was respectable about America in my eyes, was the separation of Church and State (something, certain European countries could learn from). But now this declares that god is the source of law, freedom, and government. *sigh*

Second, it allows for changes to be made in the US' Checks and Balance govermnet system (another thing, which is radically cool about the US, especially after the revolution when they were the first in the world at the time to implement it.).

Let's hope it fails.

fuck you....

wheelchairman
04-29-2005, 06:13 AM
About Marxism: for a fact, Marx thought it would all start with Great-Britain, as being the most industrialized country of his day.

Turned out Russia took the flaming torch (I'm speaking French there), the least industrialized country of all, where bondage was ukazed out only in 1861.

It led to penury & misery, they didn't get nearly there at all.

So seriously, even though reaganomics might not be the panacea, at least, tempered with gvt funding & spending, twould work way better.

Maria
There is a difference between Marxism and religion, the main one being that Marxism, when a mistake is made, can admit it was wrong. Marx was just a man, and not a deity, it's no surprise he made a few mistakes.

It led to penury and misery because of a misinterpretation of the theoretical question of the criminal justice system (in my opinion, a grave mistake), however, it was the first marxist state ever, it was bound to make mistakes. The first democracies in had problems too at times.

wheelchairman
04-29-2005, 06:14 AM
fuck you....
Care to elaborate?

wheelchairman
04-29-2005, 07:19 AM
Yet they've remained democracies... in they overall majority, hmm.

As for Marx, sure he was but a man, I never stated sth that could have induced you to think otherwise??!

Schumpeter also thought capitalism was bound to fail, & asserted that marxism would come to its own sooner or later. Methinks he was all wrong.

Maria
The history of Italy's Citystates, shows that they often changed from democracy, to dictatorship, and back again. Machiavelli's Discourses shows that very nicely.

You tried to imply that Marxism as an analysis was permanently flawed, because the creater of it was human (or else, your point would've been pointless.)

Italia311
04-29-2005, 09:17 AM
Care to elaborate?

Not really. I see alot of your posts on here...so I just felt like saying that. No reason really. Bored? *shrug*

wheelchairman
04-30-2005, 10:18 AM
You're taunting me, sirrah. No my point was neither pointless nor did I imply...

I need an aspirin I really need that I'll drop down at the drugstore.

Maria
If I was taunting you, I would've done it in a much meaner/satisfying way.