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Italia311
04-27-2005, 10:07 PM
Since Canada is never talked about, cause lets face, there really isn't much to talk about...Im going to ask this question, cause it seems like a big enough deal, some people may know about it...

Anyone in Canada or outside of Canada been following the sponsorship scandal surrounding the liberal party? If so what are your comments? Personally I think its a sad attempt on part of the conservative government to get into power - using it to their advantage when really they are still promoting the same policies that didn't get them into power last year. I'll still vote liberal come hell or high water! Comments?

Betty
04-27-2005, 11:51 PM
I have mixed feelings. Very mixed indeed...

I agree that if you're strongly a liberal supporter, that you should probably vote liberal again, because hell, what's a little corruption that happened before Paul Martin was even elected?

But then again, as a conservative, I find it pretty discouraging that liberals fear conservatives so much that they'd rather have corruption (and pretty big at that!) than a conservative government. (I am well aware that they is always corruption, but this is much bigger than usual).

Regarding whether I want an election... I would want one because I found the last one to be incredibly fun to follow (seriously, the only thing in politics that I've ever REALLY followed in detail)... but I also think it's a big waste of money. What's however many million lost in adscam compared to... how many million do they spend on an election that really isn't DOING anything?

I also think a new election would indeed be quite similar to the old with with similar promises, etc. People knew about adscam the last time as well, they just know a little more this time. So would it sway their vote? I'm not sure. I think if the conservatives ran a really tight ship and tried to not let too many crazed anti-abortion/gay people make comments, they might do alright this time around. I'd love to see a majority conservative government. I also would prefer that the elections be run on promises rather than fear, I find that incredibly annoying. And both sides do it. The liberals/NDP speak of the terrifying things the conservatives will do and the conservatives speak of all the "corruption" that the liberals are involved in. Oh yeah? That's all well and good but what are YOU planning on doing? That's what I wanna do. The US is just as bad...

But honestly, I haven't been following what is been happening federally too closely, but it seems as if Paul Martin isn't doing too terrible of a job. I would be really disappointed if he made that deal with Jack and didn't cut the small business taxes. He knows what's going on, tax cuts create jobs, and are especially needed for small businesses. Wait a second... I should read the news before making this comment. Yup, apparently they did make some sort of deal... screw tax cuts... lets save the environment and the social programs... in ways that are illogical and don't really fix the problems! Sigh... time will only tell what happens.

Italia311
04-28-2005, 07:11 AM
I think Martin is doing a fine job. I've been watching House of Commons daily to see what has been going on. The conservative wont co-operate with anything! Everytime its time to move on to something new, the conservatives bring up the scandal. Its not even Martins fault. He fired a load of people, hired gomery and people are in court, he hired 2 outside accounting firms to do an audit on his OWN party. Martin was the one who brought this out in the open and thats why everyone knows about it. Chretien told Martin to hide it, but he didn't. Its kind of sad that Martin is taking the blame for all this, when hes clearly innocent.

Another election would cost millions, something like 250million. Recent polls have shown that 59% of Canadians dont want an early election and 52% say they will purposely punish those who call an early election. Anywho...I can't really speak on much I have an Exam in 2 hrs..but I'll say this: I dont fear the conservatives, I hate their policies. And Harper looks like a Robot. He looks frightened when he speaks to Canada. Religion has no place in Politics, show some social change, he will take Canada backwards. If hes going to revolve his whole election arround the scandal...he wont win.

Worst Case Scenario - Conservatives Minority 151 seats - election 4 months later
Best Case - Majority Liberal, like this countrys had for 12yrs. Little bit of corruption, but the old are out and the new liberals are in.

Betty
04-28-2005, 12:29 PM
I don't know if I would say Martin is clearly innocent. I will definitely give him the benefit of the doubt though. But still, the PARTY is not innocent, and people can choose whether they are voting for Martin or for the party.

I think it's annoying to make an election about social issues and not about economics. I think that the conservatives will be fine for social issues. I don't think they will do anything rash, because then way too many people would hate them. Also, the liberals are almost on par with the conservative sentiment when it comes to all those "gay" and "abortion" issues anyway. I think the election should be about where you want the money to go and where you want to see the country financially. Clearly the conservatives will go one way and the NDP the opposite. The whole "national daycare" thing, I thought that was a terrible idea personally. The healthcare reform, I don't think the liberals will go about it in the most effective away. I think having a degree of privatization is better. Business tax cuts I feel are good for the economy. That is why I vote conservative. I am very liberal socially, but I don't think it's really the most important thing for a country.

And yes, Harper had better not run the election entirely on scandal, I will be disappointed. And I also don't want the conservatives to get a minority, that would probably tarnish their chance of doing anything productive and proving themselves. A liberal majority could go both ways. A liberal minority is scary when they start pandering to the NDP.

Italia311
04-29-2005, 12:37 AM
Ya I dont really feel like talking about this anymore. Clearly your conservative. And I'm liberal. This will go no where. You believe the media and I believe martin. Its all good.

Betty
04-29-2005, 12:45 PM
I agree it doesn't go too far.

But... yeah... screw the "you believe the media" comment.

I believe the conservatives. You believe the liberals.

St Jimmy
04-29-2005, 01:10 PM
do you guys say ey after every sentence?

Tired_Of_You
04-29-2005, 01:21 PM
I agree that if you're strongly a liberal supporter, that you should probably vote liberal again, because hell, what's a little corruption that happened before Paul Martin was even elected?

Maybe it happened before, but he was the finance minister. That's almost impossible he didn't know anything about it.

Whatever happens, I won't be able to vote. I wish I could.

Betty
04-29-2005, 02:20 PM
Don't know if you picked up on the sarcasm there Val, but I'm glad to see that not everybody thinks Martin is a saint.

Tired_Of_You
04-29-2005, 02:46 PM
I did, I quoted your post because I wanted to state my opinion on that.

Italia311
05-01-2005, 08:24 AM
Recent Poll

Liberal - 32.5%
Conservative - 30.5%
NDP - 19%
Bloc - 18%

Saw this on CBC newsworld yesterday.

And yes. Martin was finance minister, but give the guy some credit. When Chretien told him to hide it. Martin brought it to the public and almost lost his job. In doing that Chretien tried to ruin Martins election as party leader but he still won. Alos, Chretien had apologized for what had happend. Friday I think it was. All in all, after the Conservatives lame attempt at using sponsorship against the LIBS, they still aren't on top. Things could change though.

Tired_Of_You
05-01-2005, 03:08 PM
Polls don't mean anything. A day it's something and the other it's the opposit.

Italia311
05-01-2005, 05:31 PM
For about 2 weeks it had been conservative favored. Then martin gave his live speech and it changed. Do you even follow politics or are you just wasting your time typing?

Tired_Of_You
05-01-2005, 05:50 PM
Wow, you're a really nice person, aren't you?

I'm saying that, because it does change. I'm not saying that for fun. Have you ever studied statistics at school? Depending of the number of people polled and also other things, the polls might not be accurate (or has a difference of % because it's not exact. Sorry I have no idea what you call that in English.).

Italia311
05-01-2005, 07:35 PM
Yes, I have studied statistics. And I am aware of what you are saying. The point of me posting that poll was to show that dispite all the media attention on sponsorship and conservative and bloc using it to look good, people still want liberal.

Betty
05-01-2005, 09:33 PM
I believe the number one rule of politics is that "people are stupid".

Anyway, Val makes a good point. And you were sort of an ass.

Your posting of the poll may be relevant as well in showing the difference in favour. But even if it's representative, it could easily change again.

Italia311
05-01-2005, 11:48 PM
Yeah, I thought since I heard so much about conservatives being in the lead for polls, for that short period of time they were, I just wanted to show how they were now once again bellow the liberals. :)