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RXP
05-22-2005, 03:38 AM
Answer me this. If a superpower went around policing the world with no alterior motive and enforced regime changes in countries that have tyricannal governments (i.e. now lets say N. Korea, Iran) would you be against it?

Is soverignty such an important concept to let pepole suffer in silence? Or is it the fact that you cannot stomach deaths which have a clear causal connection with military action. But you can stomach deaths that you don't hear about?

I'm just really interested because as many of you know I'm all for military enforced regieme change EVEN inspite of alterior motives.

wheelchairman
05-22-2005, 04:55 AM
Yes I would.

The people of these countries should overthrow their own dictators. Generally, regime change is far more bloodier than the actual dictators in power could be at the time. And it doesn't seem to be succesful, in any form. It's just a better disguised form of the regime changes certain superpowers forced in the cold-war. For that reason I'm against it.

Second, yes, a nation's right to self-determination is vital. Especially since, no nation likes a foreign army in it's soil. They have an irritating tendency to try and kill a whole bunch of these foreign army soldiers (who really, are just doing their job), as fast as possible.

I would support it, for example, if there was a large popular movement overthrowing these dictators, and said superpower offered aid to the revolutionaries. But superpowers have a tendency not to support revolutions, liberal, socialist, or otherwise.

wheelchairman
05-22-2005, 09:38 AM
Why not. Benefits US economy, makes US citizens feel better. Its win win.
Right, which is why, unemployment is at an all time low in the states. :rolleyes:

Rye
05-22-2005, 10:19 PM
Right, which is why, unemployment is at an all time low in the states. :rolleyes:

I think you'd be the one to ask this... even with all of the soldiers off at war, unemployment is STILL rising. I may just be a stupid teenager, but that just doesn't seem to make sense (unless there are that many people entering the United States every day).

wheelchairman
05-23-2005, 08:05 AM
I think you'd be the one to ask this... even with all of the soldiers off at war, unemployment is STILL rising. I may just be a stupid teenager, but that just doesn't seem to make sense (unless there are that many people entering the United States every day).
The entire IT sector is being outsourced, of course jobs are being lost. The replacement jobs (which, according to the government's ideological economists, are coming as a natural flowing of the market) are service jobs. It's ridiculous.

And the soldiers in Iraq, to my knowledge, are full-time and reserves. So I don't think too many full-time jobs were opened up. And I'm guessing that they get their jobs back, when they return (the reservists I mean.) Since a tour doesn't last for the entire war.

wheelchairman
05-24-2005, 03:47 AM
Those people will never have it nice. They didn't live good lives under Saddam, and they're even worse off now. Besides which, I honestly can't respect their culture anymore than not spitting on it. Look at them. Muslims in general ruin their own economies. They create nations where Islam is first and everything else second.
Yep, Dubai is the fucking poorest country in the world.

Islam is a religion, not a culture. And it's no better or worse than Christianity.

Flexing Wings
05-24-2005, 04:21 AM
Those people will never have it nice. They didn't live good lives under Saddam, and they're even worse off now. Besides which, I honestly can't respect their culture anymore than not spitting on it. Look at them. Muslims in general ruin their own economies. They create nations where Islam is first and everything else second.

Are you American?

wheelchairman
05-24-2005, 08:23 AM
I was more reffering to the culture of the Islamic nations in the middle east.


oh were you? Maybe I misread what you were saying.


Muslims in general ruin their own economies.
Nope, you weren't. You were wrong.

Besides you know nothing of Middle Eastern culture. It's worst parts, can be found in certain parts of America too. Stuff your cultural imperialism.

Flexing Wings
05-24-2005, 08:31 AM
oh were you? Maybe I misread what you were saying.


Nope, you weren't. You were wrong.

Besides you know nothing of Middle Eastern culture. It's worst parts, can be found in certain parts of America too. Stuff your cultural imperialism.

Leave him alone, it's a commonly known fact that that querky self-imposed superiority thing is just inherent in American society... i'm sure he doesn't mean to be a condescending wanker.

Flexing Wings
05-24-2005, 08:38 AM
If it were inherent in American society, then why do I think it's completely fucked up? No excuse.

Well i was only half serious, but sometimes i think that if someone hasn't been properly educated on a subject they're not always being 'ignorant' sometimes it's just naivety... and i don't think people can be blamed for that. personally.

RXP
05-24-2005, 08:40 AM
They create nations where Islam is first and everything else second.

This is true. Islamic jurisrprudence is what these countries are based on. Ther'es nothing wrong with bashing that. Sometimes I think people on the board get overly concerned by racism and what not. The fact of the matter is Islam in the middle east is far worse than Christianity is in the west. Because that's been temprered by Capitalism since the 1700s and Islam has no such constraint.

RXP
05-24-2005, 10:18 AM
Fucking topic about a serious question I have gets ruined.

Not Ozymandias
05-24-2005, 09:58 PM
Answer me this. If a superpower went around policing the world with no alterior motive and enforced regime changes in countries that have tyricannal governments (i.e. now lets say N. Korea, Iran) would you be against it?

Is soverignty such an important concept to let pepole suffer in silence? Or is it the fact that you cannot stomach deaths which have a clear causal connection with military action. But you can stomach deaths that you don't hear about?

I'm just really interested because as many of you know I'm all for military enforced regieme change EVEN inspite of alterior motives.
Casual connection?!?! 20,000 civilians have died so far in the Iraq invasion, and they'd still be alive otherwise. That's a pretty strong fucking connection.

RXP
05-25-2005, 12:34 PM
Casual connection?!?! 20,000 civilians have died so far in the Iraq invasion, and they'd still be alive otherwise. That's a pretty strong fucking connection.

Exactly my point sir. The thousands that died under Saddam are OK cause you don't see the causal connection in the news.

ALso 1565, the extremists are the ones in power. Islamic teachings do breed fantisism much like christian teachings which as I said before have been tempered by capialism. Both, unfettered are bad. You hinted that empire might be the soultion the blood shed in the middle east. Perhaps a superrun empire in hte present time. Exactly my point. Exactly what so many are against.

Further I'm not a grown man.

Not Ozymandias
06-03-2005, 07:40 PM
Exactly my point sir. The thousands that died under Saddam are OK cause you don't see the causal connection in the news.
A concern about the massive death toll of an invasion indicates to you an apathy about the far lesser death toll of a dicatator killing his people?? That's absurd - the whole point is you don't solve the problem of people dying by killing far, FAR more people.