Regarding this mad focus on health care...
For one, people are talking about it as though the US is abnormal in this regard. I'm pretty sure that NO country has easy, socialized access to mental health care. Universal health care provides basic (life or death, infections, broken bones... things like that) care to the public. Mental health is not included. In fact, psychiatrists and the like are generally viewed more positively in the US than in most countries. There is LESS of a stigma against it in the US.
Second of all (and perhaps more importantly), even if it WAS public, nobody can force someone to seek psychiatric help against their will, and 99% of these types of psycho and sociopaths won't seek help no matter what. Perhaps it could be identified in children, but once they reach adult age, they're adults and that's the end. Furthermore, there are a a shitload of awful parents out there - many with unwanted children - who could/would never identify something like this in their child... and there are even more parents who would never be able to admit it to a point of taking their kid to get help.
While mental health care definitely should be improved, it is not the answer here. Regulating and limiting guns is the answer.
There you go!
Originally Posted by Llamas
Or at least severely regulate it. Ultimately, the common denominator in all these events is that the assailant is someones fucking kid!
You can argue all around your point, but you cannot explain how regulating and limiting guns could possibly work. Conservative estimates guess there are 200-400 million privately owned firearms in the US.
Gun buy backs? 1-the fed is broke 2-tried and failed in cities
Confiscation? That would go over well.
Again drugs are already illegal, with harsh penalties, and it really isn't all that hard to get drugs. So you really think a law will stop, or even curb these events?
I could almost agree with you on the violent games, ALMOST, but the fact is, in a FREE society, you will have violence, and some of these violent events will be big.
You actually inadvertently nailed it. The problems stem from how we raise our children, the values we instill (and emulate) in them, the way we treat victim-hood, the way we cover these events in the news, and the value we attach to celebrities.
I shudder at the thought of how many will give up on freedom, however small a part, for the slightest inkling of security.
You kind of missed the point if you think I am blaming this attrocity on a video game. I put the full blame squarely on the shoulders of the wortless punk who pulled the trigger on 26 innocent people. People are saying this creature had Aspergers or whatever other bullshit diagnosis this beady eyed fuck had. This makes no difference to me in any way. At the end of the day he knew right from wrong, life from death and was 100% aware of exactly what he was doing every second he was doing it. That's why he shot himself after he killed those innocent kids. My point was these games can make the entire process eaiser to some of these dillusional asswipes.
Originally Posted by jacknife737
Well, way I see it:
As long as there's these games out there (and let's be honest even if they are age-restricted we all know it's kids playing them) and as long as kids (as in 7 year-olds!!!) are allowed to shoot at indoor pistol and rifle ranges (kids shoot for free ...blah blah blah) and as long as the laws are the way they are and as long as the gun lobby is as strong as it is and as long as every whacko can purchase guns/has access to guns nothing is gonna change.
Huffington Post had a good report on this:
I wonder what else has to happen before people wake up?
Best (in the sense of saddest & most out of place) comment I read was: "If the teachers had been armed it could have been avoided!"
Or you could think outside the box and have the government use the guns to shoot the mentals. Problem doublesolved.
Originally Posted by Llamas
Yeah..throw the 2nd Amendment, that seems a bit drastic. Plus, it simply will never happen. You can rationalize why this abortion to humanity did this sickening act all you want. Add law upon law to theoretically stop it ain't the cure. This cretin broke between 30-40 laws just committing this crime, so adding more gun laws seems pointless and about as logical as writing love letters to Charles Manson. Until these sick fucks begin to value of their own self worth as well as other another human life, all bets are off. All the laws in the world won't stop plain old bat shit stupid crazy.
Y'know, so far jackknife's the only one who's actually stated what he thinks is reasonable gun control. Every other asshole with an opinion is just screaming for MOAR CONTROL or MOAR GUNS! Only the lunatic fringe would ever argue that citizens should have the right to freely purchase any weapon they feel like, and only the lunatic fringe would ever argue that citizens should have absolutely no access to firearms under any circumstances.
This isn't abortion or gay marriage, where there are only two options ; yes or no. If you guys lightened up on the for/against rhetoric and actually said what you think is a reasonable measure of gun control, you'd be part of something that actually resembles a political discussion more than it resembles a pack of caged monkeys flinging shit at each other. Because I'm pretty sure nobody here believes that retarded 14-year-old aspies should be allowed to own AK's with 100 round mags and underslung grenade launchers, and nobody here believes that cattle ranchers shouldn't be allowed to buy a .22LR break-action rifle to put down their injured stock.
So hey, you've all got something in common. You're all in favour of gun control, to some extent. Maybe start focusing on the 'extent' part of things and arguing specifics instead of just screeching for LESS/MORE.
edit ; also
Maybe we should ban peanut butter because apparently that kills people too. You will have a very hard sell to ever ban guns in any meaningful way in this country. Ban clip size to 3 rounds? Sounds good but these are easily, I mean easily modified. I am a big gun advocate and of conceal carry, but I personally have little use or love for assault type rifles. Any gun specifically made/designed to kill people, it can be debated, quite possibly should not be for public sale or use. The problem is not with guns...it is with the ignorant fucks who have no value for human life. This will never be solved and banning guns or things similar is a fucking joke. Hell, if I'm not mistaken, assault rifles were actually banned in Connecticut or the county or some shit.
I've never agreed with you before, but it appears that this will change. You are right.
Originally Posted by jacknife737
Dear friends who can't tolerate anyone bringing up gun control: You're not going to intimidate me with your !!!!s, ????s, WORDS IN ALL CAPS, namecalling, and threats to unfriend. I am going to speak my mind regardless of your protestations.
I just wish you loved the First Amendment as much as your reading of the Second Amendment. Instead trying to bully people into submission, let us speak freely. Most people aren't calling for a ban on guns contrary to your knee-jerk reactions. We want better regulations on something that is already regulated. We just want improvements. To quote my friend Jim Sanches, there's a difference between regulating and banning.
Respect that America needs to talk about this massacre considering many factors including gun control. So, stop making wild accusations, calling people morons, and trying to shut down discussion.
Dear friends who say that calling for better gun laws is like calling for a ban on cars: First of all, cars are not designed to kill people. Deaths arise from accidents. Secondly, car ownership and driving are highly regulated activities including an elaborate licensing system, insurance mandate, penalties and terms for getting licenses revoked. What we are saying, to quote my friend Mike Stafford, is like calling for seat belt laws after a car crash, not banning cars.
Jim Sanches writes, "If they're going to use the car analogy, fine, let's regulate them as well as we do cars then. We mandate seat belts, headlights, the licensing of every car yearly and liability insurance on every car for starters. Not to mention all the rules of the road, traffic lights, stops signs, etc we all must obey even if we've never violated any of them."
Dear friends who say that Newtown is about mental illness and we should only discuss improving healthcare for the mentally ill: This is like saying drinking and driving is about alcoholism and we should only discuss treatment for alcoholism and not discuss how to prevent drinking and driving.
Dear friends who say the problem is the person not the gun: The problem is the person with the gun.
Dear friends who say we need guns to protect ourselves from the government: To beat the US government, you're gonna need bigger and better weapons than guns. Would you be in favor of legalizing civilians owning tanks, bombs, fighter planes, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons?
Dear friends who treat the Constitution as some holy scripture from God and who think they have divined the correct, original, literal, interpretation of it: News Flash! The founding fathers were not psychics who could predict the future. They didn't think of everything. The Constitution doesn't mention online identity theft. Does that mean we shouldn't protect ourselves from it? The genius of the framers of the Constitution is that they wrote a living document that was designed to be amended as we go.
Dear friends who think we need more God in the classroom: Our country is founded on the the principle of the separation of church and state because it is dangerous to mix power and religion. Historically, it's led to tyranny. No, we do not need more religion in classrooms. We need more common sense and respect for the give-and-take of our democratic process. We need to insist on fact-based, civil dialogue.
Dear friends who think we need more guns in the classroom to protect our children: Why stop at arming teachers? Why not arm children? How far will you go in thinking that easy access to guns is the solution to the problem of gun violence in our society? Do you want any regulation at all? Do you want buying assault rifles to be as easy as getting a Slurpee from 7-11? Would you allow children to purchase guns? Do you really think easy access to combat weapons is about personal freedom? Do you really think that's what founding fathers had in mind when they made enormous sacrifices to build America? I'm so baffled and disgusted by this response, I only have questions for you. I can't understand how you're thinking about this.
Dear friends who fear that your guns will be confiscated: NRA seems to enjoy inciting fears among gun owners that guns will be banned and their weapons confiscated. This is just a fear tactic. I don't see anyone on the national stage calling for this, certainly not on Capitol Hill.
There is a big difference between NRA members and NRA leadership by the way. There are ideas for better regulations that the majority of NRA members agree on, but the NRA leadership does not advocate for them or are fiercely opposed to them. For example, the majority of NRA members support closing the gun show loophole, reporting lost and stolen guns, and states sharing records with the National Instant Background Check System.
Instead of encouraging discussion and real information, NRA spreads fear and misinformation. Please listen to what we are actually saying instead of what you fear we are saying.