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Thread: Am I becoming a complete asshole?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harleyquiiinn View Post
    By the way Raptor, you owe me a beer.

    I read your whole message and I see a problem with it. See, you seem to think that a maybe existing God would think like a human. The way I understood it, God is more of an entity. I believe that in the Islam, it is a sin to personify Allah. But I got it, you were talking about Christianity and they tend to personify God.

    Still, you owe me a beer.
    Yeah, as i said in a later post, i wrote that from the Christian perspective, as The Bible says that God created a man in his own image. That makes him sound quite human-like (of course there is another possible explanation for this). I should have written that.

    I also said later that God being an entity or a force or something like that is far more likely. Though, i still don't believe in it.


    And yes, i owe you a beer

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nieh View Post
    This is absolutely 100% undeniable holy truth, however it's you who is overrated, not me... Mieh. Besides, I wasn't anywhere close to feeling superior, just merely pointing out things...

    GOT IT, YOU LOWLIFE WORM?!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrconeman View Post
    We need to accept as a race that we *do not fucking have all the answers*
    An interesting thought, a bit too utopic, but non the less it does feel new to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harleyquiiinn View Post
    [/obvious]
    Quote Originally Posted by Harleyquiiinn View Post
    Also, I have the feeling that you guys are angry about your education more than you are about religion. Maybe you are rejecting the whole idea because it was forced into you and you brutally realized there could be another truth... See it's a little bit like horse fucking. If you were fucked by a horse your whole life and suddenly realize that some people aren't, you would probably think "what ??? why do I have to take this giant thing inside me ???" and just leave the horse where it is but maybe someone who didn't grow up with horsefucking like Anal_guy for example, wouldn't completely reject the idea.
    Harley just gets better and better. Awww!esome.
    Before you speak think about what you're trying to say.
    Who else is there to blame for miscommunication?

  3. #33
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    I just want to point this out:

    Quote Originally Posted by tags
    fucking the dead horse, mr assman

  4. #34
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    I hate getting onto the subject of religion, especially with family.

    Personally I'm agnostic (but leaning more toward being atheist). Maybe that's because all this Catholicism shite has been battered into me from day one, and I'm scared into thinking "But....what if? Then I'll be burning in Hell (if it exists)". Quite a few people in my family are nuns and the rest are mostly all very religious. I find it remarkably stupid that my aunt travels around Europe for the soul reason of going on pilgrimages and some of them waste their time going to church twice a week.

    Even if I did believe in a higher being, I hope I would still be against the concept of organised religion. I mean, how are we supposed to know which religion is correct (if any). And then, all the hate that goes on merely because the other people have a different view of a thing that nobody can even prove exists. argh.

    I hate the fact that so many Irish despise each other based simply on whether they are catholic or protestant. I'm lucky that seen as I live in Cork I'm far away from all that crap, but I do have a few friends who are very "GARR fuck protestants". Frustrating.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paint_It_Black View Post
    I'm going to finish with a question. As much as I hate religion, I still wonder if it might be necessary. I'd like to say it isn't, obviously. But it does give people hope and gets them through the worst shit life has to offer. I find many things more difficult than most people seem to. Like dealing with death. I find it hard not to get depressed when the only certainties I see in life are suffering and death. And I can't even console myself in something better coming after. This has been and still is a big problem for me. I find it hard to motivate myself for anything or care about anything when everything seems so temporary and inconsequential. I look up at the stars and can't really make myself feel that anything matters. I envy faith. I understand why people seem to crave it, perhaps even need it. Now, my question is, do I just feel this way because I was indoctrinated at a young age? I was given the promise of immortality and then lost it. If religion was eradicated would millions of people feel suicidally depressed at the lack of meaning in the universe? Would it help if they never thought there was any to begin with?

    I've had many good conversations with some very intelligent Christians. I still find it hard to reconcile that they can be highly intelligent and religious, but I can't deny it is possible to be both. I've told them to imagine for a moment that everything they believe is simply wrong. There is nothing more going on than being born, living until you're old (if you're "lucky") and your body starts falling apart and everyone you love is dead or dying, and then you die. Nothing more. I've had people tell me they could not live like that and don't understand how I can. As if believing in something crazy is simply a choice I could make and then be happy like them. But I can't do that, and I'll admit that without anything greater than myself to believe in I'm pretty damn miserable. That's the only reason I don't actively try to fuck with anyone's faith. So yeah, I can't decide if religion is necessary or not. I wouldn't want everyone to feel like I do. But maybe they wouldn't. Maybe it's just me.
    So would you say that you're generally depressed? I used to feel like that, too. But why don't you use your intellect to view it from another side?
    Religious people may be contented and may not think about the misery that you think about so much, but when you are at the point where you think that life is fucked up because everything is so irrelevant, why not live happily? It doesn't matter if you die as a depressed or as a happy man; at some point you just die. So now I start thinkink if faith is not needed for a man to live a good life that disregards all that grief or if the knowledge we talk about is actually only another form of belief.
    I think that the latter is more likely because I have faith in what I claim to "know" even though there is no absolute proof.

    ps: I am currently listening to Bad Religion
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paint_It_Black View Post
    I've had many good conversations with some very intelligent Christians. I still find it hard to reconcile that they can be highly intelligent and religious, but I can't deny it is possible to be both. I've told them to imagine for a moment that everything they believe is simply wrong. There is nothing more going on than being born, living until you're old (if you're "lucky") and your body starts falling apart and everyone you love is dead or dying, and then you die. Nothing more. I've had people tell me they could not live like that and don't understand how I can. As if believing in something crazy is simply a choice I could make and then be happy like them. But I can't do that, and I'll admit that without anything greater than myself to believe in I'm pretty damn miserable. That's the only reason I don't actively try to fuck with anyone's faith. So yeah, I can't decide if religion is necessary or not. I wouldn't want everyone to feel like I do. But maybe they wouldn't. Maybe it's just me.
    I just noticed something here that I wanted to comment on. I find it interesting that you say, "As if believing in something crazy is simply a choice I could make and then be happy like them." Ever consider the fact that not believing in something like that is just as equally not a choice? I used to be Christian. And I felt for over a decade that I sort of wanted to be agnostic because I didn't like the corruption within religion, and I didn't like being told what to think, but I couldn't FORCE myself to not believe what I believed. It took me years to get to a point where I truly didn't believe in Jesus and such anymore. I couldn't force myself to do that. Just say, "Okay. I don't believe in that anymore." Is it really possible that I was a whackjob who somehow decided not to be a whackjob anymore? I don't know. Seems pretty unlikely. And yes, in before the "you're still a whackjob regardless of religion" jabs. I just truly can't make this connection that having faith in something ----> mental instability. Hell, I've met a few scientists in my life who believed in god. I guess I just don't believe in extremes... everyone who's religious is crazy, for example. Everyone seems wayyy too extreme, with no real foundation.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-6005 View Post
    It also seems like that's the problem with most of you guys, and you've spread your anger at doctrinal organization first to the belief system you were enclosed in, and then to ALL belief systems. It's entirely possible that there's nothing wrong with that - but I haven't seen you guys try to bring the smack down on Shinto.
    I can't see a single thing wrong with that. Christianity is what I know, Shinto has literally no effect on my life, at all. If Shinto was a a hugely powerful religion who was using their influence to pass laws and dictate the way I live my life, I'd be frustrated with them too. Now, I find all religions absurd, they all revolve around a belief that is in no way based in fact or evidence. But I hate some more than others, and I can't see anything wrong with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrconeman View Post
    That's not what I was doing, but it certaintly is a contributing factor, like I mentioned to Randy. I'm well aware Religion has good effects, both personally in single cases of people, and occasionally over a wide-spread issue. Alot of charities are Religiously based, alot of people do alot of good things with Religion as their inspiration, and I absolutely commend them for it.
    I won't argue that Religion works for some people and gives them a reason to be a better person. But a lot of people use Religion as justification for the horrible things they do. The Catholic Church for example, does a lot of good for the world. But I wouldn't call them a force for good. They can be doing so much more than they do, The Catholic Church could probably single-handedly end world hunger. On top of that, they have done so many evil and negative things in the world. This is a really good series of videos: Intelligence Squared Catholic Church Debate. Basically, the Catholic church is accused of a ton of things, then they refute it by claiming ignorance, coming up with excuses, or saying 'yeah, but we donate money!'

    Basically, what it boils down to for me is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Weinberg
    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovellamas View Post
    That's a seriously loaded question. There are so many types of agnosticism...
    That's why I asked, because agnosticism is such a broad term. I don't think people realize that most, if not all, prominent atheists are agnostic atheists. Very few atheists will claim to KNOW for certain that there is no higher power. Richard Dawkins has a video where he describes the 7 levels of atheism, claiming that he himself is a 6:
    1.00: Strong theist. 100 percent possibility of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'
    2.00: Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there
    3.00: Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'
    4.00: Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'
    5.00: Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical.'
    6.00: Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'
    7:00: Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung 'knows' there is one.'
    While I am an adamant atheist, I will never claim to know that there is not a God. The thing about it though, is even if you did think there was a higher power, how could you possibly pick just one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen F Roberts
    "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
    Quote Originally Posted by Harleyquiiinn View Post
    Also, I have the feeling that you guys are angry about your education more than you are about religion. Maybe you are rejecting the whole idea because it was forced into you and you brutally realized there could be another truth...
    I didn't go to a religious school or anything. I am angry because of shit like the Mormon Church spending millions of dollars too bank roll Prop. 8 and outlaw gay marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harleyquiiinn View Post
    Now about religion, I think I am with Wheelchairman. It's easy to only see the problems of religion but it also created a lot of good throughout the years, starting with law and well... what we could call the birth of human rights.
    Doesn't Hammurabi's code predate any Egyptian religion? That may not be true, but I think it it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Free? View Post
    This is absolutely 100% undeniable holy truth, however it's you who is overrated, not me... Mieh. Besides, I wasn't anywhere close to feeling superior, just merely pointing out things...
    For you to make sweeping generalizations about atheists and assume that they are all militant atheists who only concern is to convert you and shove it down your throat is just as bad as me assuming every religious person is just like Fred Phelps. Also, I think one of us missed the point of the comic.

    Following that, I understand new atheism and adamant atheism. It may not be the same where you live, or maybe you don't notice it because you are religious. But a lot of it has to do with being defensive and fighting to keep religion out of our lives.

    Anyway Free?, feel free to reply and talk about how stagnant and repetitive the conversation is, repeating yourself for the 4th time. I think it has more to do with you being offended by the thread than really caring about repetition.

    Besides, it's been a month or so since the last religion thread, and this isn't exactly the same thing. Believe it or not, I am very interested in religious discussions and peoples opinion on this subject, as long as it doesn't become a flame war.

    For the record, I have argued devil's advocate against agnostics and atheists who just want to be dicks. It's not only religious people that piss me off. Like I said earlier, I judge people from a person to person basis, everyone can be an asshole.
    Last edited by WebDudette; 08-02-2010 at 04:24 PM.
    I wrote a four word letter.

  8. #38
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    One thing I forgot to mention. I think I would be far less bothered by religious people if they knew what their religion was and what it has caused. If they were all aware of what was currently happening and knew what there religion was based on. Basically, I'd be a lot more willing to listen to people talk about their religion if they had spent some time learning about it, understanding it, and if they knew half as much about it as I do.
    Last edited by WebDudette; 08-02-2010 at 04:36 PM.
    I wrote a four word letter.

  9. #39
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    Oh sweet Jesus yes. I hate talking to a religious person and coming to the slow realisation that I know more about their religion than they do.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PilZ-E View Post
    For you to make sweeping generalizations about atheists and assume that they are all militant atheists who only concern is to convert you and shove it down your throat is just as bad as me assuming every religious person is just like Fred Phelps.
    What? Where? Isn't it a bit of a stretch to assume that I'm religious based on what I wrote here? I'm not.
    Also, I think one of us missed the point of the comic.
    Quite possible. Guilty. The "very good timing" thing made it look like a pun addressed to me. Also, I couldn't resist a little foreplay.

    Following that, I understand new atheism and adamant atheism. It may not be the same where you live, or maybe you don't notice it because you are religious. But a lot of it has to do with being defensive and fighting to keep religion out of our lives.
    I guess here you continue your thought about me assuming that all militant atheists are equally bad, which I didn't. Irrelevant.

    Anyway Free?, feel free to reply and talk about how stagnant and repetitive the conversation is, repeating yourself for the 4th time. I think it has more to do with you being offended by the thread than really caring about repetition.
    Only one time I had to *a somewhat cough* repeat myself only to explain myself a bit more and mainly to address your post. Not offended, not religious. I was honestly wording my feelings and thoughts.
    Besides, it's been a month or so since the last religion thread, and this isn't exactly the same thing. Believe it or not, I am very interested in religious discussions and peoples opinion on this subject, as long as it doesn't become a flame war.

    For the record, I have argued devil's advocate against agnostics and atheists who just want to be dicks. It's not only religious people that piss me off. Like I said earlier, I judge people from a person to person basis, everyone can be an asshole.
    Thumbs up for this part, couldn't agree more, except that I'm not into religion talks as much as you are, obviously. I would like, however, to point out that accusing somebody being a dick in internet might not always be as precise as it may seem to you, kind of like accusing me of being religious. A little soft comeback, mind you.
    Before you speak think about what you're trying to say.
    Who else is there to blame for miscommunication?

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