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Thread: Marriage and Divorce.

  1. #1
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    Default Marriage and Divorce.

    I think this may have been discussed briefly at some point, but whatever.

    Not sure why I've used image prompts for my last two threads, but here it goes:


    This shit is fucking stupid. You know what is more statistically likely? They stayed together out of social obligation and societal norms, their generation had a ridiculously negative stigma attached to divorce. It's likely that one or both of them were unhappy, but social repercussions and the historically difficult process of getting divorced greatly dissuaded them from the idea. Also, I'm not saying this particular couple didn't have the great communication required to fix and maintain a broken relationship over decades, but I don't think it's true of many similar marriages. Not to mention that many woman from their generation would be nearly incapable of providing any kind of life for themselves. I want to reiterate that this is a statistical and generational argument, I have no opinions about this single couple.

    Anyway, forgetting all that stuff, fuck that noise. Why stay in a relationship you are unhappy in? I'm down for trying to work it out, give it the old college try, but don't stick around if either or both of you are unhappy. A lot of people want to make the argument that people should stay together for the children, but it's bullshit. I mean, maybe it works sometimes, but children are a lot more perceptive than people give them credit for. You think they don't hear you arguing at night and don't recognize or feel the unease, hatred, and tension? I can't vouch for all children, but I'd be so much better off if my parents split earlier. I had ulcers, sleep issues, and stress issues as a child because of all the shit my parents relationship put me through. I honestly can't imagine a situation where two happy parents in different houses isn't better on the kid than two unhappy parents who want nothing to do with each other living together. Maybe it works to stay together for the kids sometimes, but in my case and I suspect many others, it can make it so much worse. In any case, people who say that parents should stick it out for the kids, while having no idea what kinda shit goes on behind closed doors need to get punched in the teeth. Also, I know they're children and all, but I think it's unfair to expect people with irreconcilable differences to stay together for 18~ years.

    If I could have it my way, I'd make marriage more difficult and divorces as easy as possible. I'd like to see marriages become more difficult because I live in Arizona and have dealt with more Mormons than I'd like. I believe it could be pretty damaging to some relationships and individuals to feel obligated to get married before you're 25, or within a year of meeting someone. I've seen people who get married at 18 to someone they've known for 3 months, and I know that shit is going to end in a train wreck. Plus, I'm sure we've all seen someone from high school in a shitty sham marriage that they jumped into with literally no prior thought or foresight. I've seen that go from bad, to worse, to even worse really quick. I'm not saying you force them to wait years or anything, just strongly recommend some literature or classes. I know that some divorces are so troublesome and time consuming because of the people involved, but from what I understand you can have two perfectly agreeable individuals and it's still going to cost you a fortune and take forever. There is literally no reason for that, let them devide up their shit and sign some nullification papers, ta-da. It's very possible that there are some legal issues I have no knowledge of and/or do not understand.

    Sidenote: The backlash from Kim Kardashians divorce was obnoxious. Partially because it's stupid to get so wrapped up in other peoples marriages and ignorant to pretend you have any idea what was going on in their relationship. Mostly though it was all the people who were simultaneously whining about all the coverage and media that the Kardashian get while simultaneously shitting themselves over Kim's divorce.

    Basically, don't fucking worry about other peoples relationships, or assume you have any idea what the fuck is going on.
    Last edited by WebDudette; 04-14-2012 at 06:42 AM.
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  2. #2
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    I basically agree, I just want to add that marriage as an institution is massively, massively retarded. Other than a few financial benefits (which are probably off set by the fucking insane amount of money people nowadays spend on their wedding event, causing them life long debt), it's just so completely out-dated and stupid.

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    Does anyone know what Pilz-E is doing right now, he somehow seems to be missing. This dude writes some strange stuff I know from other users, like shithead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PilZ-E View Post
    A lot of people want to make the argument that people should stay together for the children, but it's bullshit. I mean, maybe it works sometimes, but children are a lot more perceptive than people give them credit for. You think they don't hear you arguing at night and don't recognize or feel the unease, hatred, and tension? I can't vouch for all children, but I'd be so much better off if my parents split earlier. I had ulcers, sleep issues, and stress issues as a child because of all the shit my parents relationship put me through. I honestly can't imagine a situation where two happy parents in different houses isn't better on the kid than two unhappy parents who want nothing to do with each other living together. Maybe it works to stay together for the kids sometimes, but in my case and I suspect many others, it can make it so much worse. In any case, people who say that parents should stick it out for the kids, while having no idea what kinda shit goes on behind closed doors need to get punched in the teeth. Also, I know they're children and all, but I think it's unfair to expect people with irreconcilable differences to stay together for 18~ years.
    I agree with everything you wrote up until this. If we're gonna use personal examples, I've got a couple of them.

    1. My parents didn't stay together when I was born. My dad hightailed it out of there. I never knew him - my only memory of him was when I was 3 or 4 and we went to visit him, and he refused to give me a hug. My mom took full custody of me, and tried to raise my older brother and I alone. Child support was not enough, considering my mom was an interior decorator with an associate's degree, and my dad was the top Audi mechanic in the state of Wisconsin. We lived off spam, peanut butter and jelly, and mac and cheese most of the time. The three of us lived in a crappy two-bedroom apartment. It wasn't until I was 8 and my mom got married (to an asshole) that we were finally able to eat real food and move into a place big enough for everyone. My step dad is a jackass and I hate him, but things were substantially better with two parents around. At the very least, there were two people making decisions and things ended up being more fair. Plus we didn't basically live in poverty. One could argue that if my mom had had a better degree and a better job, this wouldn't have been a problem... but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people have crappy jobs and can't really support a kid on their own, let alone two. So in this case, splitting up really, really hurt the kids, and staying together was a better choice (even though my step dad and my mom had serious issues, I was always secretly glad they stayed together til I was out of the house... my younger sister and brother had to go through their divorce a few years ago, and both of them have emotional trauma from it that is much more severe than mine.)

    2. My other big example is my older brother. He got married at 18, had three kids, and then they got divorced when he was like 25 or 26. Like my siblings and I, my nieces and nephew are horribly fucked up teenagers now - the issues with his ex moving around and avoiding dealing with anything, the shit she would say to the kids, and the guy she got together with after the divorce... sure, the last two things could've still happened if they'd stayed together, but would've been much, much less likely. Now he's married to a fucking asshole whom I can't stand, and they have two kids together. He's deliriously depressed and they have an awful marriage. His two little ones are too young to really be affected yet, but his older kids are getting more and more messed up because this woman treats them like crap, while coddling her "own" children. For my brother's sake, I want him to get divorced. I can't stand seeing him like this. But for the sake of his kids? I just don't know.

    The point is that I don't know what is worse. I think it depends on the people involved, maturity and responsibility of the parents. I was definitely happy in my late childhood and teenage years that my mom stayed with my asshole step dad, but now I'm kinda rooting for my brother to get divorced.

    If I could have it my way, I'd make marriage more difficult and divorces as easy as possible. I'd like to see marriages become more difficult because I live in Arizona and have dealt with more Mormons than I'd like. I believe it could be pretty damaging to some relationships and individuals to feel obligated to get married before you're 25, or within a year of meeting someone. I've seen people who get married at 18 to someone they've known for 3 months, and I know that shit is going to end in a train wreck. Plus, I'm sure we've all seen someone from high school in a shitty sham marriage that they jumped into with literally no prior thought or foresight. I've seen that go from bad, to worse, to even worse really quick. I'm not saying you force them to wait years or anything, just strongly recommend some literature or classes. I know that some divorces are so troublesome and time consuming because of the people involved, but from what I understand you can have two perfectly agreeable individuals and it's still going to cost you a fortune and take forever. There is literally no reason for that, let them devide up their shit and sign some nullification papers, ta-da. It's very possible that there are some legal issues I have no knowledge of and/or do not understand.
    If I had it my way, getting "married" would totally be harder. You'd have to go through some couple's counselling, and yeah some classes with reading material and exams. But I don't agree with making divorce super easy, because a lot of people run away at the very first sign of conflict. If you've been unhappy for 5 years, that's a different story. But if your wife bought a new set of china dishes without telling you and you're pissed and you want a divorce... well, I'd compare how I feel about divorce to how I feel about getting a gun. Make people think about it, give them time, don't let them do it in a moment, and make them explain/"prove" why they think it's necessary. But I agree that divorce procedures right now are ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrconeman View Post
    I basically agree, I just want to add that marriage as an institution is massively, massively retarded. Other than a few financial benefits (which are probably off set by the fucking insane amount of money people nowadays spend on their wedding event, causing them life long debt), it's just so completely out-dated and stupid.

    "I love you."
    "No I love you, lets get the Government involved!"
    Oh hi, it's me, that person who pretty much always agrees with you. I mean, I'm all for civil unions for tax/legal/whatever reasons, like my American friend who's been living here illegally for 10 years and is now worried about getting caught, so he and his girlfriend are gonna get married so he can get a legal status. I get why they'd wanna do that, and in general, I get why people want the legal status of their relationship and the benefits that come along with it. But I do NOT get tying a bunch of romantic, elaborate shit to a freaking legal procedure. I think it'd be best if they took all the legal stuff of marriage, called it a "civil union", made it an equal-rights kind of thing, left the rest of that shit under the "marriage" term, and let people do that part for fun if they want. Plenty of people would still have weddings, but I honestly know people who got married and had a wedding just for the legal process... but it's so expected that you have a wedding that they did that, anyway.

    And don't get me started on how much money people waste on this shit in most countries. My GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Offspring-Junkie View Post
    Does anyone know what Pilz-E is doing right now, he somehow seems to be missing. This dude writes some strange stuff I know from other users, like shithead.
    Are you saying that he *used to* write "strange stuff", or that he's been writing "strange stuff" *lately*? I don't understand your comment. Do you disagree with this thread? Do you think people should stay married even if they hate each other?
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  5. #5
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    I think there's such a large need for divorces simply because people do not think about their partners enough before they get married. Some people over-look some really important characteristics that their partner should have.

    This is the part where I brag about the low Canadian Christian divorce rates, which unfortunately would be a lie. They're pretty much the same as the overall divorce rate in Canada. That's because (in my opinion) basically everyone can become foolish when they're in love.

    I think if people spent a lot more time making sure their partner was good for marriage, there would be a lot less divorce. People can really be blinded when they're in love.


    Okay, that didn't really address the topic of this thread at all, because it's supposed to be about if divorce is bad or something. Whatever.
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    I agree with all of you on how marriage should be more difficult than divorce. but I don't support the idea of "if you don't get on well, what's the point of staying together?". People have to learn that no relationship is flawless and they shouldn't be allowed to run away when they see a slightest amount of difficulty; divorce must be a more difficult process. I mean, if the people in a marriage are hating each other it would be great lesson for them to be forced to stay together a while; maybe that would make them stop jumping into a second marriage without a thought.

    I think it would be best if people would see marriage as an investment instead of something romantic. It is hard to live alone after all, of course you can manage it but it's easier for two people. Marriage is a promise you make to help your partner for better or worse, and be there when your partner is sick or depressed or anything in return of the same things from him. And usually people decide to get a divorce after they took anything they can and realize that it's their turn to give.
    Of course, my bitter thoughts might be affected by my latest experiences. My cousin, who has the habit of getting a divorce when he is bored, is breaking up with his third wife. Now I'm not judging and it is none of my business, they don't have any kids so there is no harm on anyone. Except...well, I recently heard that his wife has cancer. And she is an amazing woman, she has been very supportive and helpful not just to my cousin but to all our family. She has given all she could give to my cousin. And now because she became a nuisance he is running away and I think is the most unfair thing I've ever seen. It mustn't be so easy to escape, I don't care how unhappy he is. He made a promise and he must keep it and if he is an idiot at least the government force him.

    About couples with kids though, I have no idea what should be done. Children suffer no matter what if their parents are fucked up. If they stay married it means fights that can be quite violent at home, if they get divorced -seeing what my mother does, they can still make life hell for them. And if they get married after the divorce it usually doesn't work because looks like no one wants children that are not their own. Maybe the problem is not marriage or divorce. Maybe people shouldn't be able to have kids without permission. Fucked people mustn't reproduce.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovellamas View Post
    I agree with everything you wrote up until this. If we're gonna use personal examples, I've got a couple of them.
    Fair enough, I'm sure it's totally dependent on the family and parents. I'm a single child and ended up living with my father. My parents actually get along much better now that they aren't together. Mostly I just wanted to say that I hate when people with no understanding of what is going on try to tell people they have to stay together for the kids.

    Quote Originally Posted by ilovellamas View Post
    But if your wife bought a new set of china dishes without telling you and you're pissed and you want a divorce... well, I'd compare how I feel about divorce to how I feel about getting a gun. Make people think about it, give them time, don't let them do it in a moment, and make them explain/"prove" why they think it's necessary. But I agree that divorce procedures right now are ridiculous.
    Yeah, I agree they should be asked to explain why they want a divorce, and I think no matter what it's going to take a week or two, but I've seen divorces last months. If someone wants to get divorced because their wife bought a china set though, who is anyone else to say no? If that is something that genuinely set him off, they probably shouldn't be together anyway. More likely though, it was the catalyst that set off a guy who was unhappy in his marriage and finally just lost his shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by killer_queen View Post
    Fucked people mustn't reproduce.
    Yes.

    In a perfect world I'd like to see couple counseling or some kind of classes be required to get married, but I don't think it's right to force people to do something like that. Ultimately, it's their decision to make and all you can do is strongly recommend something. I also think a two or three month trial period with counseling before finalizing a divorce would be nice too, but if they're dead set on getting a divorce, why not make it as easy as possible.
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    All this talk of heavy counseling and classes before marriage makes me think that this is what the republicans should be doing for marriage since they're always complaining about the moral fiber and the sanctity of marriage
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    I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but I figured I might as well throw in my two cents. My views on this are very biased from personal experience that... hasn't really happened yet... It makes sense to me!

    Anyway, I have friends that have separated parents and are completely great people. They have equal respect for each parent, they spend equal time with both parent, and they love both parents and their parents' partners. It all works out great. I also have friends that are completely fucking crazy because over their parental situation. Divorce can be ugly, and the children are the best evidence of this. They lash out at friends, they favor one parent over another, and they love a step-parent more than a natural parent. Now there are situations where if the parent is a piece of shit that isn't supportive or loving, then yeah, love the step-parent. But I've seen plenty of caring, great parents go overlooked because their child's opinion has been poisoned. I don't exactly remember where I was going with this, so I'm changing topics.

    As for the institution of marriage, I agree that the government shouldn't necessarily be implanted into any relationship. It's wrong. Duh. I do, however, feel that marriage is a very important thing. It is a tradition. That alone should count for something. It does for me. Plus, I feel like just the simple act of wedding one another is a "glue" required to hold a family together. I feel like I would be in a completely different place in my life if I were married sometime before May 2011. I would actually love to be married. If it doesn't happen, oh well. I can do this single dad thing for as long as I need to and then some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovellamas View Post
    Are you saying that he *used to* write "strange stuff", or that he's been writing "strange stuff" *lately*? I don't understand your comment. Do you disagree with this thread? Do you think people should stay married even if they hate each other?
    I think that THIS Pilz-E is someone else who uses his account. It's just not his writing style. It's more like bighead who I refered to as shithead writes this.

    PS: I'm not against marriage.
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