They'll just sell the rights to the recipe to another company: anyone stocking up or paying stupid prices for them is an idiot.
Zinc Saucier
They'll just sell the rights to the recipe to another company: anyone stocking up or paying stupid prices for them is an idiot.
Originally Posted by Tom Gabel
Definitely Not Richard
I don't really understand the hate towards unions going on here.
Unions have one job, and one job only - they represent the interests of the workers that are a part of them.
Benefits, overtime hours, employer-provided health coverage - these are all historically union-won victories.
And the 'thuggish' tactics you decry are the unions using one of the few strategies available to them - a crippling of the production process. Either through a removal of the labor force (a strike) or a takeover of the means of production.
In this case, the game had changed for the Bakers' Union. Taking a cut in benefits and an absurd cut in wages would not be in the interests of the workers - it's an absurd tactic by the employer to pretend that they are negotiating.
I very much doubt that Hostess ever had any other plan, staring into their second bankrupcy filing in a handful of years, than to dissolve and sell off their assets - including the brand. There is no negotiating in good faith any more - the modus operandi of corporations has become rapacious, predatory. Production is secondary to profits, and that mentality (unlike, unfortunately, the concentrated wealth it entails) trickles down through raised hours, cut benefits, no overtime.
Unions are one of the few remaining vestiges that hold out against the new labour paradigm - in that sense, they are definitely painted with the neo-Luddite tar brush since they are by and large skilled labour being replaced by automation+unskilled labour.
While you can see it as "I can't believe these people are standing in the way of progress!", Unions are doing their jobs - they represent (by-and-large) local labour forces. That's spending money in the local economy. By packing up the means of production and ignoring the union's negotiation process, it is pretty clear that you're going to end up with fat-cat money glut and unemployed workers that can't stimulate the local economy. Look at what happened to Detroit. Unionized workers are getting the shaft, by and large not because companies are losing money, but because their projected profits are not where they want them to be. They are not making enough money. "Cost-reduction" and "profit-maximization" are the name of the new game.
Can you blame union leaders for suggesting that they fight on? When the vote came down (newsflash, almost every union is democratic and decisions like striking are made by popular vote), can you blame workers for refusing to have their livelihoods (and those of their families) by a third in wages alone, and by more than a third if benefits are included?
I don't. They stood up - at least for a little while - and said "your number crunching is playing with people's lives, and it is not alright." They got screwed, but they were getting screwed anyway.
Last edited by T-6005; 11-19-2012 at 06:53 PM.
<- This man hugged me.
Anyone who's willing to drop hundreds for a twinkie deserves to have it be a wasted venture, end of story.
I said, "Hi, Greg. I'm the creepy girl." He chuckled, then wanted a handshake and I gave it. I wanted a hug and he gave it. One of his sons was there, too. Cute. Then Pete got him to autograph my sign for me because I was too polite to ask myself since he was on his way to eat. Pete also took this of photo of him holding it. - 8/2/2014.
https://twitter.com/PeteParada/statu...56317329436672
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Senior Member
That is not what I was referring to. Anyway...Hostess went bancrupt like 10 years ago and then they filed ch.11 last January. It was no secret they were in SERIOUS financial trouble. They offered the union a contract. Basically a final chance to possibly recover. Instead, the union went on strike. No mediation, no formal rejection etc, they just went on strike. Hostess was not secretive that if they did not accept the contract, they were liquidating the company. The judge did not understand why the union was even on strike prior to formally rejecting the contract or attempting mediation first.
Senior Member
The bonuses, if that is what they really are, may possibly be payments to allow certain members of management to stay on the assist in the transistion or liquidation. Possibly members of management had a contract for certain payments regardless of the outcome. They (Hostess) filed for bankruptcy before, maybe they had to make agreements with management in order to have them to stay. Fact is, I have no idea why or if they are paying for additional services or past agreements or simply raiding the company (doubtful). The union was offered a contract, they struck. Now they have to deal with that fallout.
Senior Member
I'm sorry but no company facing bankruptcy should give out bonuses. That's just bullshit. Like when the banks got bailled out the CEO'S got billion dollars bonuses for what driving the company down. Its pretty much the same thing as Hotess is doing. Killing the buisness but yet accepting fucking bonuses. Oh and hey MOTO when you attack me for posting this watch your words and be nice.
Senior Member
lol...ok.
Like I said...people report all the time calling things what they may or may not be. The term bonus is misleading in bancruptcy cases. Unions have certain clauses in contracts, management may have the same in certain employment agreements and the company may be liable for and had funds already set aside for such instances. Calling it a "bonus" is simply a term. In some cases, management personnel may be specialized and move their family to work at a company. A contract with certain guarentees is in order when a company has had a dubious past financially. Like I said, just possibilities, I really do not know.
Senior Member
How do you know what management had to give up? Also, did Hostess violate the terms of the union contract? Never heard they did. Fact is, the company was going broke apparently...they offered the union workers and new contract to stay employed and keep the company going...the union decided to walk out and strike. Now here we sit.
Senior Member
They walked out because they didn't want their medical/pention/ hour much they make an hour cut to nothing.
Senior Member
Really? No shit...nobody does. Facts are facts and like them or not, it was either that or be unemployed. Unlike the federal government, when a company is broke...it is broke. There is no magic continuing resolution or printing up cash. Get it? There is no magic fucking wand or beggin for money...congress won't bail your dumbass out and the tooth fairy has said fuck you I'm broke too for the last time. Either make drastic changes or close up. Sometimes it is that simple. You people think there is a happy ending to everything? Just because you don't want something to happen doesn't make it stop. You think people don't get hurt or make wrong decisions? Wake the hell up. This is the really real world and not some bullshit that Wallstreet protesting or making a big fuss like a 4 year old will change. This is a company that MUST be profitable or it is done.
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