Should liberals be "nice" people?

[RageAndLov]

"Liberal" is being used in so many different ways that I don't know what it means anymore. I see it being used as a bad word, especially by bighead. What do you mean with "liberal", bighead? And why do you just ask whether "liberals" should be nice instead of everyone?

[Static_Martyr]

I dunno, shouldn't moralistic self-identified "conservatives" be a little nicer, considering that they claim to have access to the one absolutely correct moral code? Shouldn't they come across as a little more fulfilled by their own lifestyle (it is the One True Way To Live Correctly, after all, shouldn't it be more positive and attractive?), and a little less grouchy-grampa angry old white man yearning for the good ol' days when blacks and wimmins couldn't vote and everyone was Christian and nobody could get enough money or power to dispute the white male conservative mindset?

That brings up the issue of what you mean by "nice," though; I try to be "nice" in the sense that I try to refrain from calling names or just blatant character assassination, but I don't think that necessarily equates to being nice in the sense of not wanting to offend or hurt anyone's feelings. If you genuinely believe that what someone is doing is morally or ethically wrong, then it seems consistent that you would value your position in that case above that person's feelings. For example, if you think that someone trying to block blacks and/or women from voting is making a hugely immoral dick move, then I don't see any reason why you would prioritize not hurting that person's feelings over actually doing something to stop them --- if I had a choice between solving a problem and not pissing someone off, I'd solve the problem every time.

[bighead384]

I dunno, shouldn't moralistic self-identified "conservatives" be a little nicer, considering that they claim to have access to the one absolutely correct moral code? Shouldn't they come across as a little more fulfilled by their own lifestyle (it is the One True Way To Live Correctly, after all, shouldn't it be more positive and attractive?), and a little less grouchy-grampa angry old white man yearning for the good ol' days when blacks and wimmins couldn't vote and everyone was Christian and nobody could get enough money or power to dispute the white male conservative mindset?

That brings up the issue of what you mean by "nice," though; I try to be "nice" in the sense that I try to refrain from calling names or just blatant character assassination, but I don't think that necessarily equates to being nice in the sense of not wanting to offend or hurt anyone's feelings. If you genuinely believe that what someone is doing is morally or ethically wrong, then it seems consistent that you would value your position in that case above that person's feelings. For example, if you think that someone trying to block blacks and/or women from voting is making a hugely immoral dick move, then I don't see any reason why you would prioritize not hurting that person's feelings over actually doing something to stop them --- if I had a choice between solving a problem and not pissing someone off, I'd solve the problem every time.

I mean nice in everyday life. Being a generally nice, kind person. I'm not talking about a situations where you literally encounter someone who is advocating something terrible.

[WebDudette]

I don't think they have to be related at all. I want everyone to have the same rights, but I don't necessarily want to be nice to them.

[bighead384]

But say you advocate welfare policy that, in many cases, gives people who made bad decisions a second chance in life. The inspiration behind advocating this policy would be that you are a caring person who is concerned about the well-being of others and society as a whole. This particular belief is not really a "right", it's just the belief that it is a moral imperative to help the needy. So, wouldn't the inspiration to support this kind of welfare policy also inspire you to be a nice, kind person in everyday life? Because isn't it true that kind people are beneficial to society?

Also, if you were to disagree with this, then would you also say that there is nothing wrong with aggressively supporting altruistic public policy but being unkind and not nice at all?

[WebDudette]

There is nothing wrong with supporting altruistic public policy, while being unkind and not nice at all.

[bighead384]

There is nothing wrong with supporting altruistic public policy, while being unkind and not nice at all.

But wouldn't you say that the motivations for being altruistic and being a kind person are similar?

[Llamas]

I mean nice in everyday life. Being a generally nice, kind person. I'm not talking about a situations where you literally encounter someone who is advocating something terrible.

The problem is that "nice" is entirely subjective, while specific laws are objective.

I don't think they have to be related at all. I want everyone to have the same rights, but I don't necessarily want to be nice to them.

I do agree with this. If I met a gay black woman who was unemployed because she was laid off, and she was also an obnoxious, self-absorbed drama queen, I'd fight for her equality as gay, as black, and as a woman; I'd fight for her ability to have social support while she tries to find another job; I wouldn't be nice to her on a personal level because I don't like her.

[jacknife737]

If you're fighting for altruistic principals to be applied to public policy, shouldn't you at least be a fairly nice person?

The flaw in this logic is that you're assuming that most "liberals" (by this i'm going to assume you mean leftists/progressives) embrace their public policy beliefs out of altruism, where many may in fact do so out of a pragmatic self interest. Ie they believe that the government's welfare state is simply much better at providing services than a private corporation.

[bighead384]

The flaw in this logic is that you're assuming that most "liberals" (by this i'm going to assume you mean leftists/progressives) embrace their public policy beliefs out of altruism, where many may in fact do so out of a pragmatic self interest. Ie they believe that the government's welfare state is simply much better at providing services than a private corporation.

I thought about this, but I would say that most liberals are altruistic. When it comes to liberals as I'm thinking them, I might even say it is impossible to be liberal without altruism as a significant motivational factor. I mean, it's not like people go to volunteer at the soup kitchen thinking about how it's in their self-interest to keep school-age kids healthy and well-fed so that they can innovate and create jobs.

Also, it seems like there is much more emphasis placed on the altruistic side of liberalism rather than the practical side. I remember wheelchairman used to always correct people saying how Marx argued that communism would be more efficient rather than more fair or ethical or what have you.