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Thread: Should liberals be "nice" people?

  1. #31
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    Bush at least would work with people. He actually was kind of a stupid nice. Bush had the 2001 911 crisis months intop his presidency. People wanted answers. Bush was in some ways forced into what some consider, bad policy. Obama is so frigging sly handed and just spews dishonesty. He wants to bury us in debt yet was against raising the DC in 2006 during the Bush years. Saying it was a failure in leadership. Yet Obama plays hardball and keeps just fucking burying us and piling on more debt faster than anyone in history...by far. Where are the results? Where is HIS leadership? Where is the "nice" guy who wanted open discussion and everything out in the open in 2008. Simple, Obama is a friggin liar. Worse than any president preceding him. I mean, how the hell do you get out of $17,000,000,000,000 in debt all the while you are breeding people like fucking dipshit lemmings to rely on a government that in no possible way can sustain this type of spending?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTO13 View Post
    Liberals are not nice people.
    You can't categorize all liberals and say they are not nice people. That's like me saying all conservatives are assholes. It's not true. They are nice liberals and they are also asshole liberals. You have nice conservatives and also asshole conservatives. Your political views doesn't make you a nice/mean person. It's how you treat people that defines you as a nice/mean person.

  3. #33
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    I'm surprised you guys don't end up assassinating more of your presidents with all the hate towards them, regardless of their party.
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  4. #34
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    Obama plays hardball and keeps just fucking burying us and piling on more debt faster than anyone in history...by far
    Case in point. That's just not true. Bush started two illegal foreign wars that ultimately added up to a cost of over a trillion dollars. That alone dwarfs much of what Obama has done. And the big supposed drain on the deficit, the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare, actually reduces the deficit due to tax increases used to pay for some of its expenditures. Obama is guilty of a lot of things economically (he's basically a moderate Republican in terms of actual policy), but acting as if Bush (or even Romney, or any other recent Republican candidate for that matter) would've done any different is just not true.

    And if Bush was "forced into bad policy," you could say the same for Obama, as every time he's tried to introduce his own policies, he gets stonewalled by Republicans (and even some Democrats). Granted, I don't believe that for a second, but you could make that argument if you were being generous to Obama.

    EDIT: For what it's worth, as a hardcore lib, I WISH Obama would play hardball more. He could've done pretty much anything he wanted to with the mandate from the public after the election, and he still played the whole "Ah, I can't because the Republicans don't want to."
    Last edited by Static_Martyr; 03-12-2013 at 06:14 PM.
    "I'm sorry
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Static_Martyr View Post
    Case in point. That's just not true. Bush started two illegal foreign wars that ultimately added up to a cost of over a trillion dollars. That alone dwarfs much of what Obama has done. And the big supposed drain on the deficit, the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare, actually reduces the deficit due to tax increases used to pay for some of its expenditures. Obama is guilty of a lot of things economically (he's basically a moderate Republican in terms of actual policy), but acting as if Bush (or even Romney, or any other recent Republican candidate for that matter) would've done any different is just not true.

    And if Bush was "forced into bad policy," you could say the same for Obama, as every time he's tried to introduce his own policies, he gets stonewalled by Republicans (and even some Democrats). Granted, I don't believe that for a second, but you could make that argument if you were being generous to Obama.

    EDIT: For what it's worth, as a hardcore lib, I WISH Obama would play hardball more. He could've done pretty much anything he wanted to with the mandate from the public after the election, and he still played the whole "Ah, I can't because the Republicans don't want to."
    Nothing compares to what Obama has done spending wise. Then take into account the results we have. He specifically spent money in ways he said would help (laughter) the economy. Results? Fucking laughable. The ACA has areas we have not even seen to take effect, but MANY states have sued to get rid of it based upon what is in the law. Businesses are already downsizing to fewer than 50 employees and 30 hours. Go make a good living at that.

    Obama was never forced into one thing. NONE. He blew the ACA through in a late night totally partisan vote. Obama finger points to everyone but himself. He campaigns and does not govern. His own party rejected his joke attempt at a budget a few years ago. He was going to be this great new light...one problem, he's a dim bulb.

    He has to work with the other party. He won't. He had FULL control from 2008-2010, that's why ACA went through. Now he HAS to work with others, here we sit. Your president can't get anything done because his entire premise is fucked up. We don't have a spending problem. Tell that to your kids when they are paying down this debt that is out of control.

  6. #36
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    So I stop posting and people revert back to not-sourcing their arguments?

    Cool. I heard you are both woefully wrong.
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    I do no be following, fortune prick me if I do no.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairman View Post
    So I stop posting and people revert back to not-sourcing their arguments?

    Cool. I heard you are both woefully wrong.
    I can wiki paste all day. Boring. Opinion is what life is all about. All based on fact but with some of your own thoughts possibly. When you have a conversation with someone do say..."oh, by the way, according to Hoyle...blabitty fucking blah..." "Know what?, according to Dick at ABC news, Obama's an asshole." No you don't. I don't either.

    Anyway, it's not so much an argument as it is me being entertaining...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTO13 View Post
    I can wiki paste all day. Boring. Opinion is what life is all about. All based on fact but with some of your own thoughts possibly. When you have a conversation with someone do say..."oh, by the way, according to Hoyle...blabitty fucking blah..." "Know what?, according to Dick at ABC news, Obama's an asshole." No you don't. I don't either.

    Anyway, it's not so much an argument as it is me being entertaining...
    Oh you are being entertaining, but baiting Static Martyr with politics is a little on the easy side.

    It was mostly the facts you guys were stating that should be sourced, was Bush more cooperative over the aisle, and was that due to Bush being more cooperative or Democrats? Blah blah etc. Opinions don't need sources.
    Quote Originally Posted by T-6005 View Post
    I do no be following, fortune prick me if I do no.

  9. #39
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    My point actually had very little to do with the petty politics of the situation; I just get sick of hearing people say "OMG WORST PRESIDENT EVAR!!" every single time Obama does anything. It was annoying when people did it under Bush, and it's annoying now. It seems like people can't even TRY to discuss things realistically anymore. The slightest comment made in support of (or against) Obama sparks a massive flamewar/argument over who's more of a commie and who's more anti-American. It makes me not ever want to talk about anything with anyone at all.
    "I'm sorry
    For all the things that I never did
    For all the places I never was
    For all the people I never stopped
    But there was nothing I could do...
    "

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTO13 View Post
    Nothing compares to what Obama has done spending wise. Then take into account the results we have. He specifically spent money in ways he said would help (laughter) the economy. Results? Fucking laughable. The ACA has areas we have not even seen to take effect, but MANY states have sued to get rid of it based upon what is in the law. Businesses are already downsizing to fewer than 50 employees and 30 hours. Go make a good living at that.

    Obama was never forced into one thing. NONE. He blew the ACA through in a late night totally partisan vote. Obama finger points to everyone but himself. He campaigns and does not govern. His own party rejected his joke attempt at a budget a few years ago. He was going to be this great new light...one problem, he's a dim bulb.

    He has to work with the other party. He won't. He had FULL control from 2008-2010, that's why ACA went through. Now he HAS to work with others, here we sit. Your president can't get anything done because his entire premise is fucked up. We don't have a spending problem. Tell that to your kids when they are paying down this debt that is out of control.
    A few things:

    1.) Our current deficit and budget issues are the result of two things. a.) Massive defense spending that began under Reagan (Reagan tripled the size of the federal government) and continued unchecked under both Bush presidencies and Clinton. b.) Finance companies buying smaller companies and merging with banks to create barely legal monopolies that then used customer money to gamble on high-risk investments and CDOs while giving subprime loans AAA ratings in order to increase short term profits, thus causing the financial meltdown of 2008. These have nothing to do with Obama, however, I would agree that Obama has failed to increase the kinds of federal regulations needed to fix the second problem. But his failure there is at odds with your seeming belief that liberals are evil and horrible because his policies mirror conservative policies, not liberal.

    2.) The businesses downsizing are hurting themselves worse than Obama's tax policies would. Progressive taxes only take hold for a certain percentage of income and only income above the cutoff point. Meaning, if the cutoff point is 10,000, you pay the old tax rate for the first 10,000 and only pay more on any additional. Either way you're still making more money, not less, and any business owner dumb enough to not get such a simple thing deserves to fail.

    3.) I don't understand how you can claim Bush was forced into bad policies while also trotting out "Obama had a democratic majority!!!!" Bush had a Republican majority until 2006, and had the post-9/11 glow where the country refused to second guess anything he did, way longer than Obama ever did. You do not get to have it both ways.

    Bush was not forced into bad policies for the Iraq war. Bush made a conscious decision to go into Iraq on shaky evidence, evidence that the entire military senior staff were telling him was incorrect. But he let Cheney and Rumsfeld design a war based on false pre-tenses, without planning an occupation strategy, and dismantling the Iraqi army that was supposed to help rebuild and secure Iraq so the US army could withdraw in under a year. He then fired multiple members of the top military leadership for openly disagreeing while keeping Rumsfeld on. Afghanistan could maybe be argued as something he was forced into. But Iraq? Bullshit.
    "I'll die before I surrender, Tim".

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