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Thread: Should liberals be "nice" people?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTO13 View Post
    Nothing compares to what Obama has done spending wise. Then take into account the results we have. He specifically spent money in ways he said would help (laughter) the economy. Results? Fucking laughable. The ACA has areas we have not even seen to take effect, but MANY states have sued to get rid of it based upon what is in the law. Businesses are already downsizing to fewer than 50 employees and 30 hours. Go make a good living at that.

    Obama was never forced into one thing. NONE. He blew the ACA through in a late night totally partisan vote. Obama finger points to everyone but himself. He campaigns and does not govern. His own party rejected his joke attempt at a budget a few years ago. He was going to be this great new light...one problem, he's a dim bulb.

    He has to work with the other party. He won't. He had FULL control from 2008-2010, that's why ACA went through. Now he HAS to work with others, here we sit. Your president can't get anything done because his entire premise is fucked up. We don't have a spending problem. Tell that to your kids when they are paying down this debt that is out of control.
    A few things:

    1.) Our current deficit and budget issues are the result of two things. a.) Massive defense spending that began under Reagan (Reagan tripled the size of the federal government) and continued unchecked under both Bush presidencies and Clinton. b.) Finance companies buying smaller companies and merging with banks to create barely legal monopolies that then used customer money to gamble on high-risk investments and CDOs while giving subprime loans AAA ratings in order to increase short term profits, thus causing the financial meltdown of 2008. These have nothing to do with Obama, however, I would agree that Obama has failed to increase the kinds of federal regulations needed to fix the second problem. But his failure there is at odds with your seeming belief that liberals are evil and horrible because his policies mirror conservative policies, not liberal.

    2.) The businesses downsizing are hurting themselves worse than Obama's tax policies would. Progressive taxes only take hold for a certain percentage of income and only income above the cutoff point. Meaning, if the cutoff point is 10,000, you pay the old tax rate for the first 10,000 and only pay more on any additional. Either way you're still making more money, not less, and any business owner dumb enough to not get such a simple thing deserves to fail.

    3.) I don't understand how you can claim Bush was forced into bad policies while also trotting out "Obama had a democratic majority!!!!" Bush had a Republican majority until 2006, and had the post-9/11 glow where the country refused to second guess anything he did, way longer than Obama ever did. You do not get to have it both ways.

    Bush was not forced into bad policies for the Iraq war. Bush made a conscious decision to go into Iraq on shaky evidence, evidence that the entire military senior staff were telling him was incorrect. But he let Cheney and Rumsfeld design a war based on false pre-tenses, without planning an occupation strategy, and dismantling the Iraqi army that was supposed to help rebuild and secure Iraq so the US army could withdraw in under a year. He then fired multiple members of the top military leadership for openly disagreeing while keeping Rumsfeld on. Afghanistan could maybe be argued as something he was forced into. But Iraq? Bullshit.
    "I'll die before I surrender, Tim".

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighead384 View Post
    If you're fighting for altruistic principals to be applied to public policy, shouldn't you at least be a fairly nice person?
    Well, it's a thought.
    But nice people are hard to come by, aren't they?
    Quand ils ont dis "Vous vous asseyez," je me suis levé.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Static_Martyr View Post
    My point actually had very little to do with the petty politics of the situation; I just get sick of hearing people say "OMG WORST PRESIDENT EVAR!!" every single time Obama does anything. It was annoying when people did it under Bush, and it's annoying now. It seems like people can't even TRY to discuss things realistically anymore. The slightest comment made in support of (or against) Obama sparks a massive flamewar/argument over who's more of a commie and who's more anti-American. It makes me not ever want to talk about anything with anyone at all.
    I get that, however what'shisname's facts were all wrong, all you had to do was look it up. Or flip the argument around, perhaps the opposition was more willing to cooperate. And cooperate is a strong term, view it more as a series of negotiations and one will understand more clearly why one party (lol in this case I mean entity) could be more willing to cooperate.

    Or whatever. Instead you engaged him in a pointless argument based on the false facts he presented, which you didn't bother to double check or question. As a guy who is ridiculously atheist (sorry, i love exaggerating, I know you're a reasonable guy), now would've been a good time to show some of that rational skepticism.
    Quote Originally Posted by T-6005 View Post
    I do no be following, fortune prick me if I do no.

  4. #44
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    Wheelchairman is taking Static Martyr under his wing. Or something like that. Unless it's the exact opposite of that.
    When they said "sit down", I stood up.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighead384 View Post
    Wheelchairman is taking Static Martyr under his wing. Or something like that. Unless it's the exact opposite of that.
    Advice is advice, critique is critique. I should phrase myself more diplomatically though. But hopefully people will read the tone as nicely as you apparently did.
    Quote Originally Posted by T-6005 View Post
    I do no be following, fortune prick me if I do no.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairman View Post
    Advice is advice, critique is critique. I should phrase myself more diplomatically though. But hopefully people will read the tone as nicely as you apparently did.
    Do you consider yourself nice, Wheelchairman? Do you consider niceness to be a virtue?
    When they said "sit down", I stood up.

  7. #47
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    Or whatever. Instead you engaged him in a pointless argument based on the false facts he presented, which you didn't bother to double check or question. As a guy who is ridiculously atheist (sorry, i love exaggerating, I know you're a reasonable guy), now would've been a good time to show some of that rational skepticism.
    Not sure what you mean that I didn't double check or question them; my very first remark in that post was, "Case in point, that's just not true," and then I ranted on about some stuff. Unless you're talking about me elaborating WHY I think it wasn't true, being the pointless part of the argument. In which case I disagree, but fair enough. But my main goal was to avoid getting sucked into another political argument.
    "I'm sorry
    For all the things that I never did
    For all the places I never was
    For all the people I never stopped
    But there was nothing I could do...
    "

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