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Thread: The belief that others are dishonest about the way that they REALLY think

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    Default The belief that others are dishonest about the way that they REALLY think

    Although it's a seemingly obscure topic, I feel as though discussions about this issue have become predictable and based around repetitive talking points. Or maybe just at these boards it does. For example: Person A takes a moral stance. Person B claims that Person A is being phony and does not genuinely feel the way he/she claims to, and has an ulterior motive. This sets up Person A to claim that Person B is only making this assumption because he/she personally thinks in this terrible way, and has an interest in believing that others secretly think this way as well.

    But what do you really think about this if you had to examine in more deeply? Are you cynical about the way that people truly think, especially those who are passionate and outward about their moral convictions?

    I personally am very cynical about this. I do not think that most people go around thinking awful, bigoted things all the time. I do however, think that many people routinely have thoughts and perceptions that contradict their moral convictions to at least some extent. It's a difficult thing to be fully sure of. However, I have observed that out of all the people I've gotten to know closely, virtually ALL of them have revealed serious contradictions between their actions and their moral philosophies. This carries a lot of weight with me.

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    So what do you really think bighead. Do you think everyone secretly agrees with you, and we just don't want to admit it because...? Because we're afraid of not fitting in with the rest of the '1337' or what? Because we just don't want to associate with you?

    Everyone has contradictory thoughts, life isn't just black and white, even an individuals beliefs aren't just black and white. Sometimes I have a shitty, fleeting thought, something racist or misogynist, but that doesn't doesn't mean I have to give that thought any value or actually believe it.

    I'm just not sure what you're looking for here. Do peoples actions and thoughts contradict their actions and thoughts? Of course, but that doesn't mean everyone is aware of this and just secretly an asshole or whatever. Not only that, it's like you think people never change their mind about anything. What an idealistic world you must live in.

    What are some examples from people you know? I'd like a better idea of what you're talking about.
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    First of all, I'd like to say that I'm not sure why you made this directly about me. I can't blame someone for seeing that this thread is inspired by my experience and some of the thoughts I've expressed before, but I didn't think it was anywhere near the type of thing that is meant to be a conversation revolving around me.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebDudette View Post
    Do peoples actions and thoughts contradict their actions and thoughts? Of course, but that doesn't mean everyone is aware of this and just secretly an asshole or whatever. Not only that, it's like you think people never change their mind about anything. What an idealistic world you must live in.
    I would say that you're giving a very watered-down version of what I'm putting forth here. I'm specifically asking people to share how cynical they are about this specific issue. Or to what extent they feel that these contradictions occur and perhaps more important, why. You seem to think I'm merely trying to establish that these contradictions exist. It is obvious that they do.

    What are some examples from people you know? I'd like a better idea of what you're talking about.
    Not sure how to approach this, because explaining my perception of another individual's moral beliefs vs their actual actions is exceedingly detailed. It is based on somewhat of a stored catalog of mostly small observations.

    I'll say this: for me to believe that someone really does feel strongly about their moral convictions, I would only excuse them for moral failings when EXTREME pressures or temptations are present. However, I have observed that with virtually everyone, it takes only slight pressures or temptations for them to set aside their convictions. Pressures that are basically common, routine occurrences. If these predictable and common pressures are all it takes, then how strong are the convictions in the first place? Not very strong at all.
    Last edited by bighead384; 06-02-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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    If you're too vehement about something, you're likely to be in the wrong. Deep down you're desperately trying to overcome your insecurities.
    But that's just a personal feeling.

    Also, I remember Groucho Marx saying "I have principles, and if you don't like them, I've got others." Wasn't he a jocular fellow...
    Last edited by Duskygrin; 06-02-2013 at 01:06 PM.

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    I am asking you bighead, because you're the only person I know who fixates on this, and I am trying to understand why. Also, I'm still not entirely sure what you're talking about, since you've just vaguely said 'people contradict themselves, am I right?'

    An example I can think of in my life, is that I sometimes get upset when people drive like assholes, even though I make mistakes driving often enough. Though, sometimes you can tell when someone made a mistake and someone is just an asshole. Is this something you're talking about?

    I almost never litter, but a friends dad wouldn't let me in his car with an open but empty beer can, so I left it where we were. Is that the kind of thing you're talking about?

    Are we talking about blatant hypocrisy? My female friend didn't like that our male friend brought a girl who wasn't his girlfriend to a hockey game with us, but I mentioned to her that she complains about how her boyfriend doesn't like her having male friends and she doesn't see the issue. She thought about it and thanked me for pointing it out to her.

    One of my friends used to be a straight-edge vegan and now he is not. Another friend used to wear a purity ring and now she doesn't.

    An interesting phrase I saw recently was 'I'd probably argue it differently tomorrow', that's how quickly I change my mind or attitude on somethings.

    bighead, do you believe that you do not contradict yourself?
    Last edited by WebDudette; 06-02-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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    Most simply lack the courage of their convictions.

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    Most peoples opinions change to some degree based on the company or people they are addressing. Why? Reprisal. Afraid of offending. Afraid if they do offend, what it will cost them or how they will be perceived. Want to hear honest opinion...go ask anyone over the age of 65 a question. They will more likely than not give you a truthful answer. They have reached the age of financial independence and also not really giving two shits if their opinion bites someone in the ass or even if you dislike them afterwards. Most peoples public opinions are a comprimise of their values at best.

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    ^I like this post
    When they said "sit down", I stood up.

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    At work last night we were talking about this. My friend kept telling me that I do hate this girl and I kept saying I really don't.. My friend started to name things that she has done and said for all that you should and you do hate her. I was trying to convice her I don't like that girl and I can't stand her but I don't hate her .but then my friend said you hate her because she makes you hate her but you're too nice to actually say you hate her. For everything that this girl has done I truly should hate her, I should hate her so much that I want to punch her in the face every single day of the rest of my life. But I really can't say I hate her. I CAN'T stand her but I don't think its hate. I'm at the point where I nothing her, kinda in a way that she is dead to me.

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    What in THE fuck are you frigging babbling about? Jeeeezuz that was painful. Reading that made my fucking eyes cross. What the hell is your point?

    Do you hate her? Dislike her? Think she's a bitch? Did she steal your last fucking donut? Fuck me, shut up.

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