To guys who think "bitches" is synonymous with "women"

[Llamas]

Good points about GTA, and I see what you're talking about now. I can't really speak on that because I'm not much of a gamer at all. But I'd say it's similar to what you see on the internet. Most comment sections anywhere are full of extremely sexist, racist, and homophobic shit. People are insane assholes when they think they're anonymous. And part of me wonders how much of it people truly believe and pent it up all day to release it online...

[mrconeman]

Calling GTA misogynistic is kind of insane. I mean Richard and Per covered that quite well, but every single person in those games, bar none, is a scumbag. Gender literally has no bearing in that game.

[mrconeman]

Also, Per, you really missed out by not playing GTA after Vice City. Both San Andreas and GTA 4 were honestly amazing. I haven't played GTA 5 yet because the timing is not quite right for me, but I'm ridiculously excited by it.

p.s. don't listen to this madness, Per. San Andreas was pretty sweet, but GTA 4 is the worst case of black and white, and brown and every other boring colour drudgery every thrown onto a Blu-Ray. I honestly don't even consider it a Grand Theft Auto game.

[Llamas]

Calling GTA misogynistic is kind of insane. I mean Richard and Per covered that quite well, but every single person in those games, bar none, is a scumbag. Gender literally has no bearing in that game.

I suppose I need to reiterate that on a level, the game does cater to sexists and the like. I certainly was never trying to claim that people who play it are sexists or whatever, but a lot of the things added to the game were requested by fans, and there are further requests regarding being able to kidnap and rape a girl, and to hack a person to bits and put the limbs and pieces in the trunk of the car to go bury somewhere. Ideas for the game do come from somewhere. And you can't tell me that the people who ask for these things in the game are all purely good people who just want to have a ridiculous time in a game. I'm not bashing the game, I'm not bashing people who play it. I used to play Vice City myself. They are extremely well-done games and a lot of fun.

[mrconeman]

No no, misogyny is definitely a participating factor in GTA games, there is absolutely no question of that. I wouldn't call anything in those games rape though. I mean, you do have sex with prostitutes, but they are being paid, it's down to the player at that point to kill them and take the money back, you can also have sex with female characters, but that's through ridiculous dating-sim missions. Rape is farfetched.

That's not my point though, my point is that you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than the worlds in Grand Theft Auto. *Everything* in these games are a bitter twisted parody of real life, it would make zero sense to be a raging psychopath (Which essentially, you are in these games) and yet treat women alone with respect. It's not a case of treating women, or portraying women worse than men, everyone is equally despicable, and equally treated as such. Misogyny is there, but calling this game out on it is ludicrous, it's a creative art form and should have the same freedoms as every other creative art form.

I'm actually quite concerned with people who do genuinely say these games are sexist. I mean, this is game in which I can steal military grade aircraft, and run rampant in a spree of bloody mass murder through a densely populated area, before flying it into a building in an act of suicidal terrorism, but you're concerned that there's some titties in the game?
(Not you in particular, just people who actually think like this)

[Llamas]

No no, misogyny is definitely a participating factor in GTA games, there is absolutely no question of that. I wouldn't call anything in those games rape though. I mean, you do have sex with prostitutes, but they are being paid, it's down to the player at that point to kill them and take the money back, you can also have sex with female characters, but that's through ridiculous dating-sim missions. Rape is farfetched.

This isn't the point, of course, but I wasn't saying there's rape in the game. I was saying there are GTA fans who, upon playing GTA5, immediately said they wanted to be able to kidnap and rape a girl. But this brings me to my point, which I think you are missing.

That's not my point though, my point is that you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than the worlds in Grand Theft Auto. *Everything* in these games are a bitter twisted parody of real life, it would make zero sense to be a raging psychopath (Which essentially, you are in these games) and yet treat women alone with respect. It's not a case of treating women, or portraying women worse than men, everyone is equally despicable, and equally treated as such. Misogyny is there, but calling this game out on it is ludicrous, it's a creative art form and should have the same freedoms as every other creative art form.

I understand this. I understand what the games are about and fully took PiB's and WCM's points, plus as I said, I owned Vice City. I'm not trying to say that I have a problem with the games, nor that I think the games intend to promote misogyny. Neither of these things is true. My point here is that there are PLENTY of gamers who revel off the misogyny in the games, which plays directly into PiB's point. There are fans asking for rape to be possible in the game. I'm just adding to the idea that the gaming world is full of sexism in the video game world - gamers themselves.

I'm actually quite concerned with people who do genuinely say these games are sexist. I mean, this is game in which I can steal military grade aircraft, and run rampant in a spree of bloody mass murder through a densely populated area, before flying it into a building in an act of suicidal terrorism, but you're concerned that there's some titties in the game?
(Not you in particular, just people who actually think like this)

While I totally see your point, to be completely fair, stealing a military grade aircraft and flying it into a building is something so bizarrely ridiculous and impossible, and also something full of speed and exploding; the fact that fans are asking for rape abilities and hacking a person to bits to be loaded into a car is something completely different.

[mrconeman]

Oh yeah, we're pretty much in agreement then. The vast majority of teen/preteen gamers are just stupid little fuckheads that will ask for that kind of thing. Encountering a girl in an online game match results in some absolutely shameful behavior from 80% of the rest of the male gamers. I game with this one American girl online, who basically now games with me, my cousin, and my friends exclusively, because we're pretty much the first group of people she's met on the Playstation network that didn't instantly threaten to rape her to death, or just make a huge deal out of the fact that shes a girl instantly.

So yeah, gamers themselves, on the whole, are a lot worse for this issue than the actual games they play, which shouldn't get the blame.

It's a shame really, because gaming being such a huge part of nerd/geek culture, you'd think it would be inhabited by more decent human beings, since that's usually what geeks/nerds are.

[Llamas]

So yeah, gamers themselves, on the whole, are a lot worse for this issue than the actual games they play, which shouldn't get the blame.

Right, I may have initially put a bit of blame on the games, but redacted that quickly upon reading PiB's response. It would be nice, though, if the world of games itself had more powerful women - and I don't mean Tomb Raider, where the character was made to be the ultimate sex symbol of gaming. I do also think that kind of stuff pushes women away, and women feel like this isn't a world for them. Gay guys, too.

It's a shame really, because gaming being such a huge part of nerd/geek culture, you'd think it would be inhabited by more decent human beings, since that's usually what geeks/nerds are.

I think the geek/nerd culture is pretty divided. You have one set who are some of the more open-minded, easy-going, friendly people who just don't give a shit about judging anyone for anything. And then you have the ultra geeks who are generally fucking assholes.

PS: related

[wheelchairman]

Am I the only one who thinks there is a weirdly high amount of Australian accents in video games?

[Paint_It_Black]

Am I the only one who thinks there is a weirdly high amount of Australian accents in video games?

I was noticing it for a while, particularly in really out of place settings, like Fallout New Vegas. That one was really puzzling.

you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than the worlds in Grand Theft Auto.

And this is coming from an Irishman, for fuck sake.

I wouldn't call anything in those games rape though.

But if they did decide to include it would it be a quick time event, straight-up cut scene, or like one of those button-combo dancing sim missions?

And that is probably the least offensive rape joke ever made.

p.s. don't listen to this madness, Per. San Andreas was pretty sweet, but GTA 4 is the worst case of black and white, and brown and every other boring colour drudgery every thrown onto a Blu-Ray. I honestly don't even consider it a Grand Theft Auto game.

Yeah, let's listen to the guy who doesn't like Joseph Gordon-Levitt, he clearly has valid opinions.

GTA 4 and it's expansions are some of my favourite games ever. Lost 4 lyfe.