
Originally Posted by
WebDudette
Nah, that's a definition, but I don't think most transgendered folks give a fuck about 'biological definitions' and neither should you.
I can't help it. I give a fuck about definitions. I just do.

Originally Posted by
WebDudette
Would you intentionally call a friend who transitioned one way or another the wrong pronoun? 'Cause that's pretty fucked up.
Of course not. I would keep my opinions to myself in that case.

Originally Posted by
XYlophonetreeZ
I actually think that maybe it's good for there to be stiff definitions of men and women based solely on exterior biology. When you think about it, making it more complicated than that means that societal oppression has won. If a young boy likes to play with dolls, other children will no longer learn to accept that it's OK for some boys just to play with dolls-- they'll just learn that he is in fact, a girl. What if someone has interests that are more commonly associated with the opposite sex, but has no desire to change his or her biological sexual identity? They might end up being raised as the opposite sex before they ever get a chance to speak for themselves, which is just a different version of what people like Manning have struggled with.
I was making that same argument with someone earlier today. In a sense, by accepting gender reassignment, we are accepting narrow-minded views of gender roles and acceptable behaviour. People who are biologically male are being made to believe they should be female because of their interests or whatever. I dislike that. Why can't you be a male and do typically female things? Why do you have to actually become a woman?

Originally Posted by
Llamas
How is that supporting trans people?
Perhaps it's not. I want to support them though. I want them to be happy. I want them to be able to live their lives however they wish. I just can't accept that a man can become a woman simply by saying "I'm a woman now". That makes no sense to me.
If a man has reassignment surgery and hormone therapy and lives full-time as a woman then I will think of her as a woman. But not just because some dude says he's a woman now.
I still really just don't get it at all, and fear that it's a symptom of a gender-oppressive society that makes people think if they don't fit the cookie-cutter mould of what it is to be a male or a female then they have been born as the "wrong" sex somehow. I basically think you are born what you are and to believe you should have been born something else is either a mental illness or a sad manifestation of socialization forcing homogeneity upon us. I mean, these guys don't actually feel like women, right? They feel like what they think society says a woman is.
It's a hard subject to discuss. I feel that the language isn't really up to the task, or I'm just not up to it.
“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.” – Bill Hicks