Bradley manning is a woman!

[Harleyquiiinn]

I think what Xylophon meant is that if we start extending the definition of man and woman to other criterias than just genitalia, we won't even try anymore to accept that one gender can have an interest in stuff usually made for the other gender. We will just labelled them as trans.

I actually think he's making quite a good point eventhoug I'm really not sure it would actually happen that way.

And I'm all in support of trans changing gender even pre-op...

What I find more disturbing about Manning is that the guy was a soldier, and he's been sentenced just a day before his/her announcement.

I am just wondering about wether or not it's more of an opportunity thing than a real transgender problem...

But I don't really care anyway... I just think he shouldn't spend so much time in jail.

[MOTO13]

You people are fucking nuts. It's really...really simple. In fact, it's so simple, that seeing it any other way makes one mildly retarded. What Manning desire to be called, I could care less. Just because he puts on a wig and acts like a crazed loon does not change his genetics. I know for some of you it's a hard concept to grasp but, he's a male, like it or not. Ideally we'd call him a corpse, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Here's the thing...when a woman has a baby, at least in America, there's USUALLY this thing called a hospital. In this hospital there is another thing...let's call it a doctor. This "doctor" delivers the baby and looks for things that identify this baby as male or female. This doctor then signs the birth certicate identifying this baby's gender. That what you fucking go by when determining if Manning is a male...or simply a confused little bag of gender displaced waste of humanity. These alternating, gender bending ass wipes are fuckling crazy. If you can't be indentified by your birth right, let's just call you stupid.

[0r4ng3]

What I find more disturbing about Manning is that the guy was a soldier, and he's been sentenced just a day before his/her announcement.

I am just wondering about wether or not it's more of an opportunity thing than a real transgender problem...

There's some talk that he made this announcement so the government pays for the gender reassignment stuff. But I'm guessing that's pretty cynical and probably not true.

[EarY]

So is she going to a women's prison now or later or what?
And who's gonna pay for the treatment since she obviously lost all ranks, Tricare and what not.
Is this gonna have an effect on the sentence?


Not to mention the fact that in a couple of years no one is gonna care about this whole story anymore.

[Tiny Vessels]

You people are fucking nuts. It's really...really simple. In fact, it's so simple, that seeing it any other way makes one mildly retarded. What Manning desire to be called, I could care less. Just because he puts on a wig and acts like a crazed loon does not change his genetics. I know for some of you it's a hard concept to grasp but, he's a male, like it or not. Ideally we'd call him a corpse, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Here's the thing...when a woman has a baby, at least in America, there's USUALLY this thing called a hospital. In this hospital there is another thing...let's call it a doctor. This "doctor" delivers the baby and looks for things that identify this baby as male or female. This doctor then signs the birth certicate identifying this baby's gender. That what you fucking go by when determining if Manning is a male...or simply a confused little bag of gender displaced waste of humanity. These alternating, gender bending ass wipes are fuckling crazy. If you can't be indentified by your birth right, let's just call you stupid.

MOTO just because you don't understand something does not make it stupid. One of my friends is transgender and there is nothing wrong with her. She didn't feel comfortable being a male and she always identifed as a female. So she started doing the hormone therapy and she's the happiest she's been in years. Studies have shown that the brain doesn't idenitfy with the body.



P.s. Llamas I loved my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle toys. That was one of my obessions when I a kid.

[MOTO13]

MOTO just because you don't understand something does not make it stupid. One of my friends is transgender and there is nothing wrong with her. She didn't feel comfortable being a male and she always identifed as a female. So she started doing the hormone therapy and she's the happiest she's been in years. Studies have shown that the brain doesn't idenitfy with the body.

P.s. Llamas I loved my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle toys. That was one of my obessions when I a kid.

Happy and crazy go hand in hand in some cases. Studies have shown that SOME brains do not identify with the body. These..."some" brains, let's just say what it is...crazy, also have other issues with self identification and self esteem. Basically a head full of bad wiring. Maybe something traumatic occurred in their life they couldn't deal with...who knows. But to get to the point of changing your fucking gender...you better re-think what the fuck it is you are EXACTLY trying to compensate for and address that problem. Not create another one. Changing your gender or wanting to change it is insane.

[wheelchairman]

Man, Moto gives many fucks about gender identification and sanity. Almost as much as insane gender benders do... To borrow a phrase.

Manning is a pretty unfortunate last name.

Also people obsess way too much about the gender identities of children. Kids really don't care, but obsessive adults seem intent on making sure they're aware there is a gender dichotomy (defeats the point a little...)

Goddamn, talking about gender is almost as fun as talking about credit default swaps.

Man, her last name is 'man' verbified. What are the odds?

Also, I don't think Ben Affleck will necessarily be a bad batman. And whistleblowers, while obviously unpopular with the government, are necessary for a democracy. Manning should get a slap on the wrist, if anything.

Also, Moto, why do you love the nanny state so much?

[MOTO13]

Man, Moto gives many fucks about gender identification and sanity. Almost as much as insane gender benders do... To borrow a phrase.

Manning is a pretty unfortunate last name.

Also people obsess way too much about the gender identities of children. Kids really don't care, but obsessive adults seem intent on making sure they're aware there is a gender dichotomy (defeats the point a little...)

Goddamn, talking about gender is almost as fun as talking about credit default swaps.

Man, her last name is 'man' verbified. What are the odds?

Also, I don't think Ben Affleck will necessarily be a bad batman. And whistleblowers, while obviously unpopular with the government, are necessary for a democracy. Manning should get a slap on the wrist, if anything.

Also, Moto, why do you love the nanny state so much?

Well, it's like this, people deserve every opportunity to fuck up their lives and have 37 chances to get it back on track, or get another shot ofcourse. The nanny state simply allows people the proper safety net to be totally irresponsible and rely on people like me (us idiots who pay taxes) to save their ignorant asses. I am a touchy-feeling liberal fuck who loves people....what can I say.

[Tiny Vessels]

I am a touchy-feeling liberal fuck who loves people....what can I say.

Finally I knew you would come around. It's not that bad is it

[Paint_It_Black]

Nah, that's a definition, but I don't think most transgendered folks give a fuck about 'biological definitions' and neither should you.

I can't help it. I give a fuck about definitions. I just do.

Would you intentionally call a friend who transitioned one way or another the wrong pronoun? 'Cause that's pretty fucked up.

Of course not. I would keep my opinions to myself in that case.

I actually think that maybe it's good for there to be stiff definitions of men and women based solely on exterior biology. When you think about it, making it more complicated than that means that societal oppression has won. If a young boy likes to play with dolls, other children will no longer learn to accept that it's OK for some boys just to play with dolls-- they'll just learn that he is in fact, a girl. What if someone has interests that are more commonly associated with the opposite sex, but has no desire to change his or her biological sexual identity? They might end up being raised as the opposite sex before they ever get a chance to speak for themselves, which is just a different version of what people like Manning have struggled with.

I was making that same argument with someone earlier today. In a sense, by accepting gender reassignment, we are accepting narrow-minded views of gender roles and acceptable behaviour. People who are biologically male are being made to believe they should be female because of their interests or whatever. I dislike that. Why can't you be a male and do typically female things? Why do you have to actually become a woman?

How is that supporting trans people?

Perhaps it's not. I want to support them though. I want them to be happy. I want them to be able to live their lives however they wish. I just can't accept that a man can become a woman simply by saying "I'm a woman now". That makes no sense to me.

If a man has reassignment surgery and hormone therapy and lives full-time as a woman then I will think of her as a woman. But not just because some dude says he's a woman now.

I still really just don't get it at all, and fear that it's a symptom of a gender-oppressive society that makes people think if they don't fit the cookie-cutter mould of what it is to be a male or a female then they have been born as the "wrong" sex somehow. I basically think you are born what you are and to believe you should have been born something else is either a mental illness or a sad manifestation of socialization forcing homogeneity upon us. I mean, these guys don't actually feel like women, right? They feel like what they think society says a woman is.

It's a hard subject to discuss. I feel that the language isn't really up to the task, or I'm just not up to it.