The Ukraine

[Duskygrin]

I'm feeling a little bit sorry for Moto now... nobody's denying that Ukraine is a big market for Russia. Nobody's denying that Putin has got an ego triple his size. But Moto, you must try and understand that Russia's cultural history began with Kiev. To many, Ukraine seems a prime example of a failed state, and the tensions won't ease until a new settlement is reached.

[MOTO13]

The biggest problem is the worthless fucking liberal view on military in the US. Budgets (military) have been cut of the last 30 years or so and Putin knows the west (US and Europe) are not as strong militarily as they were. So Putin is taking his chances and basically telling Obama and Europe to go fuck themselves. We have far fewer troops abroad now and Putin knows it. The US is in no rush to get into another war...and China, Iran and every other worthless fucking country is watching. The US has been the world's police force for decades. Anyone who questions this is a god damn fool. You're going to see more of this kind of bullshit if something or someone doesn't stop Putin. He doesn't exactly have a reverse gear.

[Eskimo]

As much as I tend to agree with McCain that Obama and his people just don't fucking get it and are applying civil norms/expectations to someone who's all "back in Soviet Russia, norms expect YOU!" douchebaggy, what are you saying Moto, that Bush or Reagan or some other military-strong President would have put troops into the fuckin' Ukraine?

Insanity.

Half of the problem here is that, yeah, Obama's misjudged it all, but there aren't any viable options here anyway. Nobody could do anything about it, really, aside from up the sanctions further to the point where you start hurting Germany and Poland just as much as you're hurting Russia.

Anyone who thinks U.S. interests weren't involved in all the early Kiev demonstration stuff just to fuck with Russia are naive as hell, too. Thing is, Putin has half a point here. He's going with the goosestepping toolbag approach, sure, but the guy's made it pretty clear over the last decade-or-more than Georgia and Ukraine are their "red line" for any western influence. Just because they've been relatively benign since 1991 doesn't mean they're always going to be so friendly, if they perceive their zone's being compromised. Asshole? Sure. Understandable? Totally.

[MOTO13]

Reagan wouldn't have allowed this to happen IMHO. He was always a strong military advocate and had the respect of the US military. The world knew that what he said he positively meant and he had the where with all to do exactly what he said. He didn't fuck around. Obama has a rep as being a weak little bitch. Like it or not, it's true. The military (US) has little or no respect for him. The world can see this. They know Obama will only do so much...and it's mostly gum flapping and some type of sanctions. He has no real military background of any kind. And they know Obama will not allow or recommend any real concrete aggressive actions. Obama campaigned on a smaller military and pulling troops from overseas. Like it or not, the world peace relies heavily, and I mean heavily, on the presence, or implied presence, of the US military for some normalcy in their lives.

[Eskimo]

Agreed on all the philosophical stuff. All of it.

You still haven't said what you think Reagan would do differently, should Putin have been his adversary in the mid-80s and sent goons in to take back Crimea and an attempt at eastern Ukraine.

Probably arm the Ukrainian army, some sort of covert CIA training thing, yeah. But we're likely already doing that here and now, anyway, below the radar. On the big-picture stuff Obama's a living-in-an-academic-bubble stooge, agreed. Though as far as salvaging this once it's already happened, he and his people are doing just about all anyone could do. F-16s and a few troops in the Baltic states, some economic sanctions, a few "we are very disappointed in you!" Team America style reprimands. Of course Putin doesn't give a fuck about all that, but there's really nothing else viable on the table, assuming you don't want to escalate to full-scale open war with, you know, Russia.

[OC HAU]

I don't know what's understandable about Russia's imperialism in 2014. Russia has lots of own problems and like it's not enough that they are the biggest country in the world.

I don't know why are we discussing war-loving presidents. Obama is the right person at the right place. The point is to expose Russians as assholes. The way to improve the world is not to act like Russians.

On the other hand, it's time for USA army to back off. EU needs its own army. Split the NATO.

[MOTO13]

What people have seem to have forgotten is what a great foreign diplomat Reagan was. He was able to speak to people in a way that has been really never seen in modern times...or since. He was very bright in terms of foreign affairs and had the respect of people around him. Other countries knew Reagan meant what he said. With Obama, there is at best...a completely unorganized and mess of foreign affairs. No one knows where the US stands on anything. Obama is a complete disaster in this area and so are the people in the State dept...Hillary. You can take this any way you like, but having a woman heading the State Dept is a huge mistake. Many other countries simply do not respect women in any fashion. You may as well have a sock puppet as Hillary.

[Tiny Vessels]

If it was a republican women in charge you would be all in favor of it. But since it is Hillary who is a democrat, you can't stand it.

[Paint_It_Black]

You can take this any way you like, but having a woman heading the State Dept is a huge mistake. Many other countries simply do not respect women in any fashion. You may as well have a sock puppet as Hillary.

I see your point but that won't change unless more women attain positions of power. It also bears mentioning that several powerful nations have had female heads of state. Thatcher, for example. Since you can't get enough of Reagan's rotting cock you should love Thatcher.

On the other hand, it's time for USA army to back off. EU needs its own army. Split the NATO.

This is an interesting idea. Do you actually think it could work though?

[MOTO13]

I'm still convinced Thatcher had an adams apple. She was one woman who could hold her own. Very, very rare in politics on that scale. I could give two fucks if Hillary is a dem or republican. She's an irresponsible waste of breath. Like I said, there is a certain presence men have and most women will never have. Just the way it is. When it comes to running a country...actually running a country like the US...I would never vote for a woman. Most men would never admit that though. They like to pretend they're all touchy feely and modern. Women can do what a man does...I don't buy that shit.

Reagan would have actually spoken to Putin on his own terms. I have no idea obviously what exactly, but Reagan would have met alone with him. But probably LONG before that meeting, Reagan would have met with his military heads and State Dept to go over options that would occur. Putin would know he's dead serious at this point. Russia is in a bad way economically and can hardly afford a war. Putin would have backed down. He'd have no choice.