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Thread: The Ukraine

  1. #41


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    Volunteer from Russia about what is happening in Ukraine.
    (Translated by Google translator)
    http://www.anti-ravnodushie.ru/news/...e/2014-04-07-8 in english
    http://www.anti-ravnodushie.ru/news/...e/2014-04-07-6 in russian
    This letter is being sent to all major blogs, media, as well as famous people requesting this information available on your site and in the media. Please even people far removed from politics, to place them on your websites and blogs. Letter is not only politicians, but also of how people believe in what they are asked to believe, and lose his own opinion. I already wrote a similar letter earlier, in 2008, when there was information disorientation of people on the events in South Ossetia and Georgia.
    Now when do I have to write a letter addressed to a large Number of recipients. Similar reason - these are the events in Ukraine and "information media illiteracy ", placing full information and not giving a false impression of developments. As before, I do not represent any political force and no political movement. I'm just a small organizer of the volunteer movement in Russia, which can not bear to look at what is happening. I apologize in advance for the messy style presentation of ideas, with a leap of thought to the idea and for his bad English.
    Purpose of this letter:
    1) to explain my attitude to lying about Russia
    2) to draw the world's attention to the fact, what information they lie now substitute the truth about what is happening is really happening and in Ukraine.
    Finish preface, go directly to the facts and my thoughts about what is happening:
    Historical background : so it is typical for rulers stupid - not to hear the first calls, not be able to negotiate a peaceful positive constructive opposition. Losers on these stories have not mastered elementary if not agreed with moderate - come radicals. So , in the XVII century in England the king did not listen to the wishes of meek Presbyterians - came radicals and head of the king flew from his shoulders . A leader of the second Maidan Cromwell disbanded the parliament , set an even tougher than the King mode . And in Russia : the king did not wish to negotiate with the Cadets and Octobrists - decent gentlemen requested the constitution and the government responsible to the Duma . They did not want to concede. Subtotal: two shocks for the year shooting the royal family and the revolution.
    Rallies in Ukraine were peaceful - so tell us the media. At first it was. But first things first .
    1) 2 was originally so called evromaydan . First - this is a peaceful protesters, mostly students . When they saw what they were doing over second, they just finished their meetings . Second maidan - is also initially peaceful protesters, joined and subsequently adjustable steering and provoked their radical group of people that have passed rigorous training. Subsequently, about it will be discussed.
    In 2010, Ukraine came to power, the Party of Regions, which over the years has not shown its viability. Situation in the country was so deplorable that, of course, gave rise to the protest. And it would be silly to condemn the meaning of this protest, because the change of power in 2010 was only castling not entailed any positive changes in the country.
    Took advantage of this situation and those who would benefit from a revolutionary change of government.
    Rallies in Ukraine were peaceful - so tell us the media. At first it was. But only at first.
    The first suspect is a fact that on many websites and in many social networks, almost at the same time, there were records of "All go on euromaidan." Many people were gathered for a very short time. Under one slogan from different sites I can hardly believe that it was an accident, it is no secret what impact social networks now have on people. In the beginning of the action really were peaceful until November 24, when protesters tried to storm the building of Ukrainian Cabinet of Ministers. The next day, on stage with the opposition came out foreign policy - the head of the Lithuanian Seim Loreta Grauzhinene . What HEREUNDER, is regarded as a direct interference in the internal affairs of another country. On Friday evening the authorities decided to move to action. And it was dispersed by soldiers of golden eagle. Immediately there were reports that the capital is shrinking by radically minded people armed with sticks and fittings. 1 December it was confirmed when they were seen in the crowd of protesters, which at 12 o'clock sent toward Independence Square. These detachments - iron discipline, and immediately see that people trained. At 16 hours they have already started "host" on euromaidan - attack the Town administration. Near presidential administration building "protesters" came together in a melee with the "eagles" and internal forces. Responding was used tear gas. A curious fact, many radicals in gas masks were given to those who have become direct the actions of people. On their team (waving hands) the remaining radical in the riot police started throwing smoke bombs, stones and sticks. Good planned actions show that it was a golden eagle to force and internal forces to respond to provocation. Some time later, the leaders of the opposition organizers announced government riots. It would be funny if it were not for human victims. Some foreign politicians are not limited absentee participation, as well speaking to the "protesters." I do not think it make sense on lead chronological record events. Let me just note again those facts which were silent and of attention to which has been reduced:
    1) Simultaneous posting on social networks
    2) The participation of foreign politicians
    3) Protest was not peaceful. Peaceful people do not throw Molotov cocktails at their fellow citizens, even if they are on the other side of the political. That's their job. But this work is not included burn alive
    http://www.newstube.ru/media/v-centr...-manifestantov
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCPpnPgww6w
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7k0MjODEQY
    4) Does not "eagle" unrest began, they only responded to provocations
    5) Snipers, of who told repeatedly fired at the people on both sides. Bullets were the same caliber, as stated by the results of examination by experts from Estonia. This fact, nobody paid attention for almost a month. Is this evidence that the Russian security services fired, as many have said the media? Blame the other and ourselves to ignore the facts - this is not an indication that Russian organized riots and sniper fire. Quite the contrary.
    6) With regards to snipers - photos from Twitter then becomes alleged Russian snipers. This is drivel.
    7) lie about the fact that Russian troops into Ukraine. In the photo from Poland - the usual exercises in Russia a few years ago.
    8) European integration is not profitable for Ukraine, the document on more than 900 pages are virtually alone duties and restrictions, and no rights. People died for it?
    Appeal to those who protested. How many of you read the paper on the integration of Ukraine?
    Among such information bluff, poured over our ears, many believed that this is our country is behind all this.
    Now we come to the Crimea to Russia. Many countries maintain double standards. Until now, many countries do not recognize the annexation to Russia fully authorized as Ossetia and Crimea. The question is, what they think those words strikes? For them, the choice of the people does not mean anything? In the first case was an external aggressor - Georgia. It is clear that people did not vote for those who shot him out of the system "hail". In the second case it is a manifestation of Nazi statements and actions regarding Russian in Ukraine. Most residents of Crimea are Russians. And I think they want to remain in the country in which express fascist slogans, which imposed thoughts that SS is good? The example is below.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gMzhf0Cdwo
    And if you want to vote in the Crimea reason for joining Russia - here it is:
    23 years ago on the same referendum voted against joining the Crimea to Ukraine, but was forcibly put into its composition. Is there a connection results of the voting and the fact that it was the most poorly funded state region - decide. Crimean residents and do not forget that connection, and then penniless existence. Here you have the reason (even two) of their voting for entry into Russia. Let's not give this opinion condemning.
    And the last question on the video on this page: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEFCmJ-VGhA
    Regard it as Nazism? I did not pass this letter to the person, almost never called names. But the question is: Yulia Timoshenko, you head all right? You remind another Saakashvili.
    Finally, the interim government. Do not judge me, but I can not seriously considered a government based on the oppositions, the ex tip of which the video captures a BDSM.
    What awaits Ukraine with such leadership? Another loan? Unfortunately, this is not Russia and pay it within the resources will not work. Where all the moves? Think for yourself.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofYpi...ature=youtu.be
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VMMt...ature=youtu.be

  2. #42


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    To summarize:
    Mass misinformation.
    Blaming Russia.
    Nazism on the protest actions, which I tried not to mention, as it is insulting for those friends who live in Ukraine. Shame that for what appeared in their homeland this abomination.
    Information blockade of the Ukrainian people.
    Now it's simple. "Divide and conquer." Bleed Russian and Ukrainians on the Internet provoking comments.
    Who is behind all this? Thinking people understand without words, that those who need the Ukraine as a secondary market. This is just my opinion based on logic, without any direct significant proof. Saying nothing about this paragraph, just encourage people all over the world to wonder what is true and what is false. Politicians have realized the folly of sanctions. My business is not to be a politician, and you can tell how many people thought.
    As I said, I am not a supporter of Putin, as I was not quite satisfied with his domestic policies.
    This general lies make a shout out to all opened their eyes:
    Say our media serve all too favorable to them in the light. In another case, I would say that this is so. But not when hands of my friends were broken and one of them has punched skull. They're Ukrainians. "Peaceful students" do such things?
    Fomented toward national conflict, death from snipers, throwing Molotov cocktails at the Golden Eagle division fighters.
    It's all a peaceful protest? In all this, and still accuse Russia. This is old as the hills. When those who write it and believe it lost the remnants of humanity? This is people's lives.
    Seized power in Ukraine is now looking for somebody to blame for the shooting.
    Answer point by point:
    1) not only shot of the sniper rifles. Golden Eagle fighters were wounded and pistols, and shotguns, and rifles.
    2) Golden Eagle fighters were accused of shooting shotguns (sniper rifles).
    How idiots need to be to add to the list of accused person who can not shoot because he severed fingers on a hand grenade. According to the current government, he could shoot. Express your opinion: looking for someone to blame. One having power at the moment in Ukraine was captured on video outflow case that reminded Case for shotguns. In Internet video is.
    3) Wounded soldiers eagle not receive medical care.
    4) have a video on the Internet, where a loaf of bread from the take out and collect shotgun radical opposition
    5 ) the reasons for firing : Golden Eagle fighters did not use weapons , and not retreating. 2 days waiting for a military solution to the conflict radicals, for them it was profitable and it is expected of them and the authorities. Then snipers were involved shooting on both sides, and protesters and police. They needed to develop conflict.
    6) Does not apply to actions directly or eagle or protesters. Change of power through the easiest way to make police discontent. A psychological lift, it is much easier to put people on those they see every day, than against those they see on TV, the former government of Ukraine.
    7) on the video shows that the attack was the Maidan from the territory controlled by evromaydan. The shots were fired in the back. Marksmanship was not absolute, and the bullets hit the trees. Tell me, why just after the coup were cut down all the trees that were in the area where snipers were active?
    http://www.1tv.ru/news/world/255886 at time 2-47
    With regards to the situation in South-Eastern Ukraine:
    Donetsk, Luhansk, Kharkiv .
    People staged a rally to ask for a referendum called by separatists. Let's start off with the fact that it is your fellow citizens and Ukrainians. Who organized themselves. They say that they persuade the Russian special services, because of what they want now supposedly start in Russia.
    Everyone forgets the fact that the original demands of the protesters were holding a referendum on the federalization of these areas, and in the case of assigning them the status of federation further their entry into the Ukraine. It was stated that if the authorities do not consider the demand, only in this case to hold a referendum on joining in the Russian Federation.
    According to all of the above:
    Yes, the changes in the situation in the country needed, initial protest was fair. But the discontent of people have used for their own purposes, those who run backstage. Ukrainians now impose a "correct" view of the owners of TV channels. Think, who now owns TV stations in Ukraine?
    And the sad fact is that after many countries were given video evidence that there has been an armed attack on the police using shotguns and short-barreled shotguns, and the use of Molotov cocktails. All were silent and replaced constantly subject, and it was not announced in the media. What is the reason to discredit themselves on recognition of these facts?
    PS "A revolution without victims - a tiny lie" (c. - Yuri Shevchuk )
    As a result of the whole political part of the letter:
    1) Every somewhat satisfied, somewhat not. But if a brother goes to his brother ... you - the people of one country, everyone has their own political views , but do not forget that the same eagle - are citizens of your country, that the same maydanovtsy - are citizens of your country, except for the radicals the same south-east - are citizens of your country , not separatists . If you continue to fight each other, you will lose your humanity. It is difficult, but the first thing is to stop responding to all the provocations, and remember that you - brothers...
    2) Do not judge people by its government of the country. This applies to all countries that have intervened in the conflict. Too many lies was announced, and will not soon it will be revealed. But this does not apply to civilians, ordinary citizens who are not politicians. If you do not like Putin ( I do not share in all its policies, but the inside ) - that's no reason to shout slogans about the " death of Russian ." Our people are still worried about you. Think again, have not yet passed the point of no return of consciousness.
    3) With all my dislike of the EU, I think (my suggestion - just advice, you decide your fate) that the only way - is the federalization of the state. To keep it safe.
    4) What will happen with Ukraine if anybody show shred of consciousness and unite people:
    it all depends on the presidential election . I can only say one thing:
    All three of which were for a maidan - these candidates do not command respect at least, because when you had to choose a single leader in the Maidan , saying they were told , "You people, and you - the leader " ( not literally ) . Thus, they took responsibility for their actions and for the deaths of people.
    Yulia Tymoshenko - how to choose the moral and unbalanced person, which is driven by a desire for revenge at least indirectly it, who put her in jail. Repressive procedures (http://inpress.ua/ru/politics/27447-...-dele-bakulina). Intentional fragmentation people naming their ordinary citizens separatists. Desire to fight with Russia. Ukrainians who want a war? Us - no. And you hope, too.
    Only if the power will not come Aligarh, not bought people and tearing apart the country, only if you team up against anyone, but for the idea of a strong state. This person should be a manager, which is slowly (do not believe in fairy tales about fast) lead the country out of crisis. Do not make a new victim in the new revolution, but simply ask the president for budget transparency and explanations feasibility costs and financing.

  3. #43


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    How many more people will die before you learn how to verify the information before you go on about "ideas" that you throw up? How many more will be venting aggression for the "right" ideas?
    "Mama put my guns in the ground
    I can't shoot them anymore
    That cold black cloud is coming down
    Feels like I'm knocking on heaven's door "(c. - David Bowie)
    Tell me why this is the land of confusion (c.-Genesis)
    As silly as it sounds, I propose to announce a white religion:
    Do not kill , do not rape , do not steal , do not betray and not fall into aggression , not pass by when someone bad , learn to take responsibility (even indirectly ) for their actions and be able to think - the principles that can be bound by any person of any religion.
    Never lose your freedom. Freedoms of many, but one of them - the most important. This is - freedom within you, freedom of thought, and not the freedom to do what they like, forgetting about the responsibility for their actions and words. Legend as one song, "there are other facets understanding of freedom" (c. - Elysium). It - freedom of thought and self, not imposed by someone understand the world and the freedom to change this world for the better. Stop thinking stereotypes. For example, in America, many believe that Russia bears walk the streets and all wear hats with earflaps. Imposed stupidity. If we take the example of serious: Anarchy initially - a society that is so morally ethically developed that does not need power. Word changed the value and anarchists are now called those who rioted. Punk movement in its early days was directed against addiction to alcohol and smoking, the bad qualities of their own against the world situation around. And what made it ? Yes, it is not beneficial to someone - the development of moral society. Even because it would not have been blind to the fact that it sees no would buy them a lot of unwanted things. Economy to a halt. It would be impossible to impose values glamorous, distracting from the important, and it would be impossible to make people indifferent to everything around. But do not forget about freedom of choice. People will accept this substitution values, someone out of laziness, because someone wishes or desires of money allocated by the authorities or the same money, because of fear, unwillingness to be like everyone else .
    People even substitute story. For example, many people in Japan have seriously believed that this Russian dropped on Hiroshima nuclear bomb. Americans say it is they won the 2nd world war. At that time, they did not interfere with long, millions of Soviet soldiers died and it is their victory, remember that!
    Russia accused of aggression , both military and economic . Syria, Iran, Iraq, Vietnam. The list is long. On the topic of economic aggression. A striking example - Bulgaria, which destroyed almost quotas scale agriculture and agrarian country. Let's not point the finger at those who benefits from it.
    The absolute majority of the media papered over the adoption of a new constitution in Iceland. Namely, that it was written by the Icelanders, not politicians. This is real democracy, information on the Internet on this topic enough, just need to read.
    Lies concern many countries which it was imposed, both the global and the regional and local levels. Try to change the world around you. In a good way. This does not cancel any puppeteers, nor hatred, nor lie, as a world, and shallow. But it will make the world a little bit better. I'm not dreamer. I am realist and a cynic, is far from ideal, but even I try to do something. Who, if not me, and who, if not you? Neutral - this is the worst it allows evil. It is what allows you to take imposed values as a good thing. I am introvert and do not like attention to themselves, and I'm sorry that the reason that shout, that boiling, appeals to all, were the events in Ukraine. But those who have something to tell me, to express their opinions, or just to challenge my letter, I leave a link to your feedback on the site about the indifference of (access to which I recently returned due to the loss of the old domain name): http://www.anti-ravnodushie.ru/index/feedback/0-3
    PPS since I wrote this letter, I would like to appeal to Vladimir Putin asking for a closed meeting to make proposals on Russia's domestic politics.
    Request to those who will place the text, it does not cut out the pieces and place it completely.
    With respect to thinking people, Aleksey Sunchaser.

  4. #44
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    Hey Maria, this might be a bit direct and off topic. But I really wanna fuck your brains out. How about we meet up some time?
    HAVE YOU EVER GONE AWAY with ONE HUNDRED PUNKS to have THE WORST HANGOVER EVER?
    “Trust me, mate. Stingrays can't swim backwards.”~ Steve Irwin
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    That sucks. But it's not a surprise, I read an article which says that a lot if studies show that death is really bad for your health...
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    Who is Blowjob Armstrong?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojan View Post
    Condoms, you and I.
    Quote Originally Posted by coke_a_holic
    Cockin' and Jockin' since July 2005

  5. #45
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    Hey AllIn, but only with a bag on her head.
    I drank from your hands I drank from your mouth you poured into me until I was drowned I had no breath was drunk on you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskygrin View Post
    Meet HAU, the philosopher.
    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairman View Post
    Dr. Hause transcends labels. He is both human and humanity.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC HAU View Post
    Hey AllIn, but only with a bag on her head.


    Now onto that bomb that Aleksey has just dropped.
    OK, somebody please remove that gibberish. I've only read 3 lines and I already need an aspirin.

    Much, much more interesting: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/putin-warn...2.html#83hbdEg

    Looks like somebody is on a winning streak. Granted, it has all the trappings of blackmail... he certainly wants the whole country to submit to his will. Who'd have thunk that a blondie could be so iron-fisted?
    Last edited by Duskygrin; 04-10-2014 at 01:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC HAU View Post
    Hey AllIn, but only with a bag on her head.
    You know I was being serious
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskygrin View Post
    picture


    Much, much more interesting: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/putin-warn...2.html#83hbdEg

    Looks like somebody is on a winning streak. Granted, it has all the trappings of blackmail... he certainly wants the whole country to submit to his will. Who'd have thunk that a blondie could be so iron-fisted?
    And if that's her face than there is no problem for me. But speaking of Mr. Putin...He is def. hell bent on something. Idk what it is but hes got something up his sleeve. Bringing together a new Soviet Union seems unlikely but maybe some sort of military alliance against NATO is more likely. Either way, the US and EU shouldn't interfere unless they want China, Russian, and more countries to start a war with them.
    HAVE YOU EVER GONE AWAY with ONE HUNDRED PUNKS to have THE WORST HANGOVER EVER?
    “Trust me, mate. Stingrays can't swim backwards.”~ Steve Irwin
    Quote Originally Posted by Harleyquiiinn View Post
    That sucks. But it's not a surprise, I read an article which says that a lot if studies show that death is really bad for your health...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojan View Post
    Who is Blowjob Armstrong?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojan View Post
    Condoms, you and I.
    Quote Originally Posted by coke_a_holic
    Cockin' and Jockin' since July 2005

  8. #48


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    Quote Originally Posted by Duskygrin View Post

    Now onto that bomb that Aleksey has just dropped.
    OK, somebody please remove that gibberish. I've only read 3 lines and I already need an aspirin.
    nice try.
    I apologize for familiarity , but could you learn to read more than three lines? No offense .
    1) If you remember the situation with Georgia , only after my previous letters to the media and the governments of the EU and the U.S. have recognized the fact that Georgia attacked Ossetia at that time . "Grad " about something you said ? officially recognized that Georgia used banned weapons , killing civilians. think this time the media with U.S. and EU policies do not lie ?
    2) to understand the purpose of the letter , you need to read them fully . Or too many letters ?
    3) I 'm against many of the actions of Putin . but :
    a) stupid confused government and the population of Russia. as is done in the press
    b) need to be able to different points of view always . I watched the materials on the events in Ukraine, more than 3 weeks for 6 hours a day to try to be at least a little objective
    c) the words I tell friends who live in Ukraine .
    d) See the conclusions .
    e) if you suddenly think that I am advocating Putin , read the example of Iceland. you knew about it at all ? media about this were silent. nobody knows. will continue to believe the media ?
    good luck , anyway.
    Last edited by Alexey Sunchaser; 04-11-2014 at 03:46 AM.

  9. #49
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    Allin, I am also of that opinion, but can you imagine the Warsaw pact without its backbone, the Soviet Union?

    Alexey, I usually read more than 3 lines, but in your case I'll make an exception. I have trouble understanding your prose, and the parts I do understand aren't exactly pretty. One thing, though. You mentioned watching the news day in, day out, for hours on end, in order to be objective. I should have thought it's the reverse: watching the telly for so long would turn the smartest man into a drivelling idiot. No matter the channel. Каждому свое.

  10. #50


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    not tv, just reading, watching foto and video materials
    it's no matter that "каждому своё". every one has his own opinion. I don't think this dialog has any meaning at all.
    it's not depending of my prose, this is only http://translate.google.com.
    the meaning of words mustn't be pretty, if I realy understand your english. my english is very bad,I know it

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