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This is quite accurate.
Originally Posted by Paint_It_Black
Also, you made proper use of a semi-colon - start using "whom" and I'll be feeling as though I've got some competition round these parts
Last edited by Llamas; 05-13-2014 at 04:46 PM.
Originally Posted by jsmak84
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Ughhhh, why am I even doing this. It's like screaming into a hole in the ground. But fine, let's address what MOTO13 has said. Please hold questions and comments until the end of the ride.
The IAEA report you are likely referencing has been roundly criticized by experts since it deals entirely with developments before 2003 (this is a full 8 years before the report was released, you will note) and provides no new information. What fun! Let's also ignore that in 2012 the US itself said that Iran was developing its nuclear capacity but had no intention of building weapons. Why would they want them, I wonder, aside from the obvious fucking answer.
Originally Posted by MOTO13
Iran disbanded its first nuclear program (a program established and aided by the US and Western Europe) willingly and without being asked under Ayatollah Khomeini, who considered such programs immoral and too dangerous.
Can you imagine what would happen is these people got long range nuclear capability? I mean these middle east pigs have zero respect for human life and hate the west. Just getting the nuclear bomb is the first step, then getting the ability to launch it is another, I understand.
Iran is a signatory to all three major global WMD treaties - the Biological Weapons Convention, the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons Convention, and the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty.
One nation you won't see on any of those three lists, by the way, is Israel, commonly seen as an apartheid state even by ex-American Presidents, and only too happy to use white phosphorus munitions over densely populated civilian areas. Here's a nice little snippet of its effects. White Phosphorus, by the by, is routinely considered a WMD. Other groups accused of using white phosphorus in violation of international conventions include the US (in Fallujah) and anti-Saddam Kurdish revolutionaries in 1991. The biggest arms supplier to the shining beacon of morality that is Israel? If you guessed the United States, there's a nuclear bomb in it for you!
Iran has not invaded another nation in over 300 years. The most important military actions of the last century have included being invaded by the Allies as a neutral country in WWII and being attacked by Iraq after its revolution in 1979. Fun fact - a UN dossier circulating at the time of the Iran-Iraq War claimed that chemical weapons were in common use, but failed to mention that only US-backed Iraq was using them.
See, the middle east is like a great big fucking retarded-insane person with zero conscience. You never know what is going through their frigging mind.
After the 9/11 attacks (about a year and a half after, in 2003), Iran offered to re-open formal diplomatic relations (cut in 1979 after the CIA-backed Shah was ousted in the Islamic Revolution) in what they called a "Grand Bargain" which would resolve all of the outstanding issues between the US and Iran, including the US's fear of Iran sponsoring terrorism and developing its nuclear program further. The US responded by including Iran in its 'axis of evil' along with Iraq and the shitty Korea - which, considering the history of war and antagonism between Iran and Iraq, is nothing short of hilarious.
"But how do we know they're not working on these things in secret?" I hear you ask. That's a very good question, MOTO13, I'm glad you asked. It's not like the US has a recent history of unreported mass surveillance, the extrajudicial killing of an American minor, the purposely incorrect reporting of other countries having WMDs, as well as the invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Let's definitely focus on what those other guys may be doing first, instead of what's definitely happening at home.
You will note that all of that is sourced, unlike a single thing you have said.
I'm not a fan of Obama. I wasn't a fan of Bush. As far as irrational American exceptionalism goes, they're just about the same - they're dangerous figureheads who assure us that they're making the hard choices. But the problem is systematic, not individual. It doesn't matter if making the call is hard if it'll be made no matter who's sitting in the chair. Your system of government is corrupt and broken.
Hey, don't worry. So is Iran's. But do you know what Iran doesn't do? They don't do the equivalent of sending ships for naval exercises in the Gulf of Mexico.
Iran's leaders are extreme, corrupt and completely untrustworthy, and they're making life miserable for Iranians. But the US's leaders are extreme, corrupt and completely untrustworthy, and they're messing shit up for everyone. The current Iranian government exists because of a populist reaction to a US-installed dictator. North Korea exists today because the US and USSR were playing their Great Game with the Koreas during the Cold War and one collapsed. Al-Qaeda exists because the United States supported a group of mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviets in the late 70s and early 80s, training them and arming them.
Yeah, they're all monsters. You might be right there. But they're all American monsters.
Last edited by T-6005; 05-13-2014 at 07:25 PM.